Robert Mattson – HR Tech 2022 Series – Can Quantifiable AI Promote Employee Engagement?

Connect with Robert:

• 

Connect with Dwight:

• 
• dwight.brown@salary.com

Connect with David:

• 
• 
• david.turetsky@salary.com

 

Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 

Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• Intrigue
• HR Data Labs Season 5 Episode 15
• HR Data Labs Season 5 Episode 13

• “What does wellness mean now and how do we support wellness—it’s not just about the technology.”
• “Whatever solution, whatever process, service, system you put in, it has to be done in a human way. . . . Be good to people; be honest with people; be forthright with people and then set up your processes to reflect that.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record, pour their discussions into a beaker, mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast at the 2022 HR Technology Conference here in the beautiful Mandalay Bay Convention Center in Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host, David Turetsky. And I have with me one of my best friends in the world. Robert Mattson. Robert, how are you?

 

Robert Mattson: 1:06

I'm doing well. David, it's great to be back at HR tech. It's been a number of years since I've been here.

 

David Turetsky: 1:10

How long has it been since you've been here?

 

Robert Mattson: 1:12

I think it's been five or six years since I've I've walked the the thinly carpeted floors of HR tech!

 

David Turetsky: 1:19

The thinly veiled floor, you could call it a veil. So Robert, you've had a lot going on. We're not going to go through all the things you've been doing since you've been back. But tell us a little bit about what's going on in your life that brought you back to the HR technology show?

 

Robert Mattson: 1:33

Well, it's my clients, my clients who are drawing me back, I've got three and as you can tell the noise here in HR tech is absolutely fantastic, top quality noise. But I've got a bunch of clients here I've got my client called TaTiO, which are there in the recruiting space, and they are doing their pitch fest presentation.

 

David Turetsky: 1:51

That's right, exciting.

 

Robert Mattson: 1:52

So I'm here supporting them. And they are right across the hall from Spark Start another one of my clients that is also in the recruiting space. And so I actually it's odd, I've got a client, I've got someone who wants to have a meeting with me, that is on the same row. So I say I can point to two references. As I sit here and I and I actually, oddly enough, had breakfast with a past client of mine Plum.io that is also in the recruiting space. I've been living in the recruiting space lately.

 

David Turetsky: 2:18

Not a bad place to live.

 

Robert Mattson: 2:19

It's really quite interesting!

 

David Turetsky: 2:21

There's a lot going on.

 

Robert Mattson: 2:22

It surely is.

 

David Turetsky: 2:23

And we're going to talk about some of that. But first, as you remember, one thing that no one knows about Robert Matson.

 

Robert Mattson: 2:31

Oh, one thing that people don't know about me that they should know about me, we love honking horns. I'm a big fan of honking horns. I am a I'm a Volkswagen GTI fanatic.

 

David Turetsky: 2:41

Really?

 

Robert Mattson: 2:41

I bought I own two of them. I wish I owned 10 of them. I just love that little German hatchback and I have a blast driving my car which has been named Juergen after Juergen Prochnow because it actually was in a flood and I got a great deal on it. So Juergen Prochnow from Das Boot. If you've not seen Das Boot, you should. So yes, I'm a GTI fan.

 

David Turetsky: 3:00

There you go. There you go. People, if you have a GTI you want to sell, contact Robert Mattson. I probably will buy it. That's great. So what company you're with now, you were at ITM?

 

Robert Mattson: 3:09

It is basically a rebranding, because ITM Speakers was the company that started four and a half years ago, and about six months ago rebranded to Intrigue Communications and Coaching, intrigue.cc, which is actually a small island nation, .cc. But it fit what I what we named the company, but we changed it because we're doing a lot more than just doing presentation skills coaching, it's expanded so much over the years.

 

David Turetsky: 3:33

Got it. Excellent. So the topic for today's conversation is going to be HR technology 2022 versus 2023. And so what did we see happening in 2022? And like, talk a little bit about what we've experienced and what we've seen. And then let's talk a little bit about what we expect for 2023 after that.

 

Robert Mattson: 4:01

Sure. I think when you take a look at the past year, it to me it's always been the transformation of stop automating broken processes, and start looking at new things that you can do with the technology. And also when you take a look at what's been happening, how are you supporting, not even work life balance, but the work life conglomeration merging that we've seen, and people are trying to so quickly change to address the needs of the hybrid workforce, and also be ready for whatever happens next. Because none of us really know. If we're gonna go back to is it gonna be 33/33/33 remote hybrid work at the office? Or is it gonna be some kind of shift in that? And how do you support that after people have taken a bite of that apple?

 

David Turetsky: 4:48

So I think a lot of the research that we've seen has companies wanting to move back to more of an in person environment, but the majority of employees like more than 70%, I think close to 80%, in the studies I've seen, have said that they want to have at least, you know, some part hybrid and mostly remote, though.

 

Robert Mattson: 5:09

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 5:09

And very strong opinions on it as well.

 

Robert Mattson: 5:13

And I think what you're seeing a lot is, during those two and a half years, companies have been saying, Okay, what's coming? How do we adjust? How do we transmogrify our solutions and our approaches to this COVID base world? And now they're saying, Okay, we spent all this time doing this. What do we do with it now? Because how do we transform it again? Or because I don't think what people did necessarily is going to be a perfect fit.

 

David Turetsky: 5:38

Well, I mean, for many, and remember, we remember a lot of this, because we're all forced into it at one moment in time. And I think a lot of work environments were do the best you can, and the do the best you can had to suffice until it was a Okay, so we've been doing the best we can what can we do anything better? And then we kind of settled on a nice to haves and the must haves and the whatnots. And that kind of settled in as the new normal.

 

Robert Mattson: 6:05

Yeah. And I think also, when you take a look at the concept of wellness, I think a lot of I've been doing a lot of work with the New England Employee Benefits Counselor, NEEBC, and a lot of their members and companies within the New England area, are looking at what does wellness mean now? And how do we support wellness. So it's not just about the technology. And I think the technology and the just getting it done, is now being moved into. Okay, there's a lot of new things here that we have to consider when it comes to I don't want to call them nebulous processes. But there are new ways of going about things that companies are saying, Okay, how do I know when they're happy? How do I know when they're sad? How do I know who should I who I should promote? Who I should give a raise to? What benefits are right? And that is what they're looking looking to do. And I think a lot of technology companies that are looking forward are saying, okay, there are processes that are going to be happening. We've spent our career automating processes or streamlining or getting getting data, let's call it data, let's talk about data for a second getting data from this process, right? How do we garner data from these new shadow processes that are being created? Because we don't have systems that actually cover that?

 

David Turetsky: 7:15

Right. And that's what's fascinating is that there were holes, there were things that filled the holes in the short term. How do you learn from those things? What do you do? And so what are they doing?

 

Robert Mattson: 7:28

Well, I think what they're trying to do is they are trying to use a lot of AI to capture things. In fact, AI started, what about six or seven HR Tech's ago, when everyone had AI on their boots? Everyone was an AI company?

 

David Turetsky: 7:42

It was a new thing.

 

Robert Mattson: 7:43

Yeah. And so it was the flavor of the month. But now I think people are trying to say, Okay, let's not AI is not this huge thing. Let's focus it.

 

David Turetsky: 7:51

It's making the AI real. Right?

 

Robert Mattson: 7:53

Exactly. It's, it's actually implementing AI. If you think of the hype cycle, you know, we're on the downward cycle where it actually becomes usable.

 

David Turetsky: 7:59

Exactly.

 

Robert Mattson: 8:00

So again, I've been dealing a lot with these recruiting companies, and like they're using it for things like, let's take a look at how people fit future jobs, not current jobs.

 

David Turetsky: 8:10

Right.

 

Robert Mattson: 8:11

So they're looking how they can do things like that.

 

David Turetsky: 8:13

And you're learning from other people that were in those jobs? What the data told them about their successes or failures in those jobs. And what did they lead to after that job? What did they do? What what did they use their skills for after that job to go into what?

 

Robert Mattson: 8:29

Exactly but they're also doing something interesting is they are doing the pre work in a different way. So they're not looking at resumes, they're looking at assessments, or they're looking at simulations, or they're looking at things like that, to bring in the different data they need to do those exact correlations. Because if it was all based upon the resume, as we know, David, that people aren't really good at writing out resumes.

 

David Turetsky: 8:53

They're also liars. Did I call that out really?

 

Robert Mattson: 8:55

Yeah, you did. That was nasty, you are nasty man.

 

David Turetsky: 8:58

I'm sorry.

 

Robert Mattson: 8:59

Okay. But they're for whether it's intentional or not. People have never been trained to put resumes out and I've seen a lot of resumes from people and even resume writers. A lot of them are like, how do I make it pretty?

 

David Turetsky: 9:13

Yeah, exactly. You're polishing an unpublishable.

 

Robert Mattson: 9:17

Yeah, I always tell people your resume is not your job history. It's a marketing sheet to what you can do in the future.

 

David Turetsky: 9:23

Right. Well and then you have these other people who take the keywords and either metadata the keywords into the footnotes quote unquote or you know they try and trick the current AI into looking for them for the particular job they're posting for

 

Robert Mattson: 9:40

Yeah, they're trying to find Yeah, that AI that's taking place that six seconds the recruiter used to scan the resume, but I don't know what you David, I'm not a huge fan of today's ATSes. I'm just not.

 

David Turetsky: 9:50

Yeah, we've had many conversations on this program. In fact we're gonna talk be talking to Tim Sackett, about that as well.

 

Robert Mattson: 9:56

He knows a thing or two.

 

David Turetsky: 9:58

fairly breakout

 

Robert Mattson: 9:59

pretty smart guy

 

David Turetsky: 10:00

Yeah, especially in the recruiting space.

 

Robert Mattson: 10:01

Yeah, he's been through a few things.

 

David Turetsky: 10:03

Yeah. Jack Coapman, you know, Jack.

 

Robert Mattson: 10:05

I am a big Jack Coapman fan. I love his personality!

 

David Turetsky: 10:08

Bennett Sung.

 

Robert Mattson: 10:09

Bennett Sung!

 

David Turetsky: 10:11

Jack Coapman's Giants fight song, that first album?

 

Robert Mattson: 10:14

Little known fact. Now, I'll give you this Jack Coapman has a fine voice. He is a wonderful singer.

 

David Turetsky: 10:20

He does. Yes. Renaissance man just like yourself.

 

Robert Mattson: 10:24

Um sure. But yeah, Jack, Bennett are phenomenal, knowledgeable people in the recruiting space. And they've seen what hasn't worked. And they have a pretty good idea what would work in the future.

 

David Turetsky: 10:35

And we'll be talking to them during the HR Data Labs podcast, probably at the HR Tech conference as well.

 

Robert Mattson: 10:41

Yeah, I know, that's, I've trust me, I've been sending out LinkedIn messages and emails to people saying, like, we gotta get together, because these are just, besides being really smart people, they are really good people. It's nice to have that kind of family. That's what HR Tech is. It's kind of like a family reunion.

 

David Turetsky: 10:57

It is. And sometimes families don't get along. But we're not gonna go there.

 

Robert Mattson: 11:01

No, there's no need.

 

David Turetsky: 11:01

There's no need.

 

Announcer: 11:04

Like what you hear so far? Make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe. This podcast is made possible by Salary.com. Now, back to the show.

 

David Turetsky: 11:14

So let's talk about coming out of 2022, a lot of it's going to be around being able to leverage that AI in usable ways. By the time this podcast airs, there is going to be at least the one that I've done with two brilliant people who I met on LinkedIn, who had written a phenomenal a research piece on being able to utilize AI to look at employee demographic data and the problems in the employee demographic data. So there's a lot of really cool uses for AI that's happening today. What are some of the other things you've seen this year that excite you about the world of HR technology?

 

Robert Mattson: 11:50

I think it's, I hate to use this phrase, I'm going to use it the humanization of human focused software, where you're seeing people realize

 

David Turetsky: 11:59

Interesting phrase.

 

Robert Mattson: 12:00

yeah, if you're seeing people that are trying to say, what we've learned through the COVID experience, is that people are people. And we have to treat them as individuals with great respect and great understanding to all of their situation, their home life situations, because we all suddenly got hit in the face with it.

 

David Turetsky: 12:19

Yes.

 

Robert Mattson: 12:20

You know, we got hit in the face with I mean, my father passed away, my 89 year old dad passed away last spring. And people knew about it.

 

David Turetsky: 12:28

Yep. And then went to the funeral.

 

Robert Mattson: 12:31

Yeah, and some, which was the best of the people went to went to the funeral. I won't, I won't say any names. But I'm doing that college drinking game. I'm really pointing at David right now. But it's I think it's

 

David Turetsky: 12:41

It was beautiful too.

 

Robert Mattson: 12:42

people realizing that whatever solution, whatever process or system you put in, it has to be done in a human way. So it goes back to kind of those shadow processes that are being developed, and that they have to be done in a way that is very human focused. And I think that HR people, which I've always said, we've had this conversation in past years, they're really good at asking, asking for things for others.

 

David Turetsky: 13:09

Yes.

 

Robert Mattson: 13:10

And they're not good for standing up for themselves, sometimes

 

David Turetsky: 13:12

never,

 

Robert Mattson: 13:12

because they're very giving people and that attracts them to this particular field. And I think that they have to make a very strong stance, and say, we need to do this the right way, for people versus the way that back when we started first started in HR technology, where it was technology and process forward versus how are we trying to enable and affect the people that make up our companies?

 

David Turetsky: 13:35

Right. Because it's not just that we're doing it to be good. It's we're doing it because they have to focus on other things. And now we're realizing they need to do a lot of other things that may be there, they have to take care of their kids, or they have to get other work done, or the thing you talked about before wellness, and their well being and making sure that they're mentally healthy. And if we can take things off their plate.

 

Robert Mattson: 14:01

But that's the thing, David, being good to employees is a good thing for the organization. Because I mean, how do we everyone wants to do employee engagement, we want to engage in employee engagement. It's like okay, be good to people, be honest with people, be forthright with people, and then set up your your processes to reflect that!

 

David Turetsky: 14:18

Right. But then we hear the words that no one wants to utter that have two Q's in it. Quiet quitting, which all it is to me and maybe I'm wrong, but to me, it just seems like employee disengagement.

 

Robert Mattson: 14:30

I saw a post by Drew Fortin and Drew, he made a great talk about some of the definitions of the quiet quitting. It's the person that is doing their job, letting people know that sometimes they can't take phone calls or you know, basically doing the extra work when they tell people they can do the extra work and being reasonable having what we used to consider a good work life balance. And some people define that not all I see that, the quizzical look, you look at basset hound looking at me right now, of quiet quitting. But some people are defining it that way. It's like you're not giving 150%! You know, something? That's not maintainable. You can't sprint through life. Life is a marathon.

 

David Turetsky: 15:09

Yeah. But to me, then if that's really what quiet quitting is then that's horseshit.

 

Robert Mattson: 15:13

It is!

 

David Turetsky: 15:14

I know I said it on the air. I'm sorry.

 

Robert Mattson: 15:16

They're gonna edit it out.

 

David Turetsky: 15:16

Yeah, no, they're not.

 

Robert Mattson: 15:17

Oh, thank god.

 

David Turetsky: 15:18

No, to me, it's, you know, I always use the equation. I think I actually talked to you about this. 24 minus L equals W. That's the equation for life. Yeah, not 24 minus w equals L, which is, I'm going to work my ass off during those 24 hours. whatever is leftover is my leisure time. That's not the way things should work.

 

Robert Mattson: 15:37

Yeah work is like closet space. You know, it will just you will fill it all up, you will fill up your life with all this work. And you'll never clean it out. And when you do you'll find pictures of your kid when he was five and it'll take forever. Am I going on a tangent?

 

David Turetsky: 15:48

It's an OK tangent.

 

Robert Mattson: 15:49

Okay. Yeah, but hard to clean.

 

David Turetsky: 15:51

I see where you're going.

 

Robert Mattson: 15:51

Yeah, you know the kid.

 

David Turetsky: 15:53

I do. But he's a good reason to fill up your life with L.

 

Robert Mattson: 15:57

Trust me. He makes my life a living hell, sometimes! Yeah, sorry. Sorry. occasionally get unloaded dad joke.

 

David Turetsky: 16:05

We love dad jokes.

 

Robert Mattson: 16:06

Yeah, we're dads.

 

David Turetsky: 16:07

Yeah, we are. Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this. Well, you're in luck. We have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast or whatever is on your mind. Go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today. Okay, so now let's turn it a little bit and talk about what is 2023 going to bring us? These are predictions. So we're gonna come back here next year, this time and we're gonna say how'd you do? Nine months in, how'd you do?

 

Robert Mattson: 16:49

So I have a year from now?

 

David Turetsky: 16:50

you have a year

 

Robert Mattson: 16:51

from now

 

David Turetsky: 16:52

but but but it's got to be by now. It can't be like, October something had happened.

 

Robert Mattson: 16:57

No I'm good with that. I'm okay with that.

 

David Turetsky: 16:59

So where's HR technology leading in 2023?

 

Robert Mattson: 17:02

I am going to I'm going to double down on my AI concept. But I'm gonna say

 

David Turetsky: 17:07

AAII?

 

Robert Mattson: 17:08

No, AAII. But no, this is like bad car talk. I think what you're gonna see is more quantifiable AI, where you're gonna start seeing the measurements that have meaning based upon the AI's work. So right now, AI has gone from being a nebulous concept to usable. And now I think you're gonna see AI being more quantifiable in how benefits are coming about and how it's affecting both people and businesses.

 

David Turetsky: 17:36

So then you're gonna see, it actually take on the role that people hoped it would be, which is actually affecting, not just business, but actually affecting people in a good positive way, unless I'm reaching?

 

Robert Mattson: 17:52

No, I think you're fine. I think there'll be more standards. And I think they'll come, they'll come from the technology side, where AI will come in, and they'll be like, Okay, you're using AI for this purpose. This is our standard on how effective it is. And that will be the technology side. And then it's up to these people here on the floor, to come up with the business side of it and merge those together. This is how effective your AI technology is. This is how effective it's affecting your business. It's kind of like doing photography, I think of lenses. It's how much light comes through the beginning the big part of the lens and how much light actually hits the sensor to create the picture, and both sides of those are going to be something that I think you're gonna see more definitive measurement.

 

David Turetsky: 18:30

I hope you're right, because we've been praying for a while that AI takes on a larger roll, and gives us an ability to kind of step back and do other more value adding things. It sounds like what you're saying is it will impact the world of business in a very positive way and give us an opportunity to leverage it.

 

Robert Mattson: 18:53

Yeah, and I think there'll be more standards, I just think people will start measuring effectiveness in a more standard like way from how they look at AI.

 

David Turetsky: 19:01

Well, you were talking about HR technology around recruiting before. Where can we extrapolate sales for recruit?

 

Robert Mattson: 19:07

Well, I think that when you take a look at the recruiting aspect, I think you'll see a move away from resumes. I think resumes will get less and less important, as these more holistic ways of measuring people become more prevalent, because I'm seeing literally, in my own client base. I'm seeing three and hopefully after this event, a fourth client that all have different viewpoints of how recruiting should be done for everyone from hourly people to Evergreen jobs to highly skilled labor, and they all have different viewpoints of it. And I think what you're gonna see is the resume becoming less important versus a better way of judging someone's capabilities looking towards the future.

 

David Turetsky: 19:52

And I like where you're going before that's possible, especially with not using a resume if there's a standardized way of being able to look at the data about the person. And now that those standards exist, and we're getting the data about the person hiring for the job, we can assess them instead of going through that crappy resume, and trying to predict whether or not that resume speaks to, as you said before.

 

Robert Mattson: 20:13

Exactly.

 

David Turetsky: 20:14

And so hopefully now the right person will get hired for the job, and not the person that the AI thinks is the right person, from today's world.

 

Robert Mattson: 20:25

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 20:25

But that's a that's a lot to go through in a very short period of time you realize that right?

 

Robert Mattson: 20:30

I do. But I think that it's actually happening already in little spots. And you know how this consolidation happens, either companies that are bigger see the good ideas, or they acquire the good ideas. And I think that that is going to change, I don't think it'll I said, less important. I didn't say dead, I said less important.

 

David Turetsky: 20:50

Okay. Okay, so the resume is not dead, so anybody who's in the resume fixing making world, you don't have to polish your resume yet. Sorry, that was a shitty joke.

 

Robert Mattson: 21:03

No, you had to go there.

 

David Turetsky: 21:05

But soon, you will have to make sure that you have your background and assessment.

 

Robert Mattson: 21:11

Yeah, it's gonna be less important.

 

David Turetsky: 21:12

Is there going to be a system of record though for experience? Or is it literally just going to be: This is what I say I am, and assess me for it?

 

Robert Mattson: 21:23

I mean, you could go into you know, the wonderful the blockchain and you know, maybe a company comes up with a, a kind of competency based blockchain and do things that way. We could have

 

David Turetsky: 21:32

Where your certifications exist in the ether somewhere?

 

Robert Mattson: 21:36

Yeah. And you could have that where you could take, look, there's so many different assessments. I mean, Heiman, there's, you know, there's the people over at Plum, there's all kinds of assessments you might take, and they're all different. I mean, I'm one I am my top skills. I'm a communicator, the other ones I'm a promoter, you know, what does it mean?

 

David Turetsky: 21:52

Well, you're both. They both got it right.

 

Robert Mattson: 21:55

But it's one of the situations where you would have to come up with some kind of standard, just like there is a rough standard for the general information in an ERP or an HRIS, you'd have to come up with some kind of standard that is applicable, that you could fit in a lot of different job types.

 

David Turetsky: 22:11

Well, LinkedIn has a lot of that.

 

Robert Mattson: 22:13

True.

 

David Turetsky: 22:13

Not as much on the blue collar world. Not as much on the, you know, hourly world, but certainly on the professional world. LinkedIn serves that purpose doesn't it?

 

Robert Mattson: 22:24

It does, but it's that's mostly based upon your credentials.

 

David Turetsky: 22:28

Yes, but there are certain things where once you get certified, you can get a LinkedIn certification, that has to be certified by that group, like Coursera! Coursera used to have or you got an accreditation on Coursera, that was actually something you could post on LinkedIn.

 

Robert Mattson: 22:44

Yeah! And you know, I got an A in electromagnetics, too, in college. But do I have the skills? I'll tell you right now, I don't!

 

David Turetsky: 22:53

But you did then!

 

Robert Mattson: 22:55

Barely.

 

David Turetsky: 22:56

Unless you cheated off your neighbor.

 

Robert Mattson: 22:57

Oh no I got a C in electromagnetics, I got an A in comedy.

 

David Turetsky: 23:01

I could definitely tell!

 

Robert Mattson: 23:02

Yeah I got a C in electromagnetics, I still got my double A degree. But yeah, I think it's the elements that we are intrinsically, intrinsically good at. You know, if you can say if you can solve problems, if you're good at looking at a problem, regardless of its scenario, and you can take a look at and say, Okay, I can look at this logically assemble the facts behind the cause and effect of this problem. I can build the solution to it. Maybe I need some extra knowledge, but I have that skill set. But it's really hard to get a certification for that skill.

 

David Turetsky: 23:33

It is.

 

Robert Mattson: 23:34

So how do you quantify that and I think a lot of the psychoanalysis stuff that they have out there in Organizational Psychology, that type of stuff can actually expose those skills. And I think that's what people are going to be turning to, because you're not the sum of your degrees, you're not the sum of your, your job, your job search, you're the sum of what you can bring to the table today.

 

David Turetsky: 23:54

That's true. That's true. And there's good there and it's bad there. Right? We have deficiencies which can be filled, those are what I like to call opportunities.

 

Robert Mattson: 24:03

Sure!

 

David Turetsky: 24:03

And we have to fill them somehow

 

Robert Mattson: 24:05

And they're honest deficiencies.

 

David Turetsky: 24:06

Yeah.

 

Robert Mattson: 24:07

You know, everyone has them.

 

David Turetsky: 24:09

Well,

 

Robert Mattson: 24:09

Yes, everyone has them.

 

David Turetsky: 24:11

Okay. Okay. Well, thank you, Robert. I'm appreciative you could stop by the booth and be here. And thank you for being another repeat guest on the HR Data Labs podcast.

 

Robert Mattson: 24:29

Always a pleasure. Thanks, David.

 

David Turetsky: 24:30

Take care. And everybody out there. Thank you and stay safe.

 

Announcer: 24:35

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