Louie Lugo – Driving Business Success Through an Inclusive Workplace

Connect with Louie:

• 

Connect with Dwight:

• 
• dwight.brown@salary.com

Connect with David:

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• 
• david.turetsky@salary.com

 

Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 

Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• The Gallus Detox national admissions line is 888-306-3122.
• CompAnalyst Pay Equity
• HR Data Labs Season 4 Episode 17
• HR Data Labs Season 4 Episode 15

• “I think a number of organizations look at values to often be outward facing (so customer, client, patient-facing) and that's fine. But it's incredibly important that those values are also inward facing. How we treat each other in the workplace is incredibly important. And I would argue that it's underrated even in this day and age.”
• “Doing the right thing has not been especially popular or consistent in the workplace. . . . At this point we've been saying “work-life balance” for twenty plus years. I think we're moving into a [time] where it's more “work-life integration” and how we support the whole person.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record for their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Turetsky. Like always, we try and find fascinating people inside and outside the world of human resources to bring you the latest on what's happening in the world of HR data, analytics technology and process. Today we have with us Louie Lugo, who's the Chief People Officer for Gallus Medical Detox Centers, very important, especially in this day and age. And, Louie, why don't you give us a little bit about your background?

 

Louie Lugo: 1:14

Yeah, sure thing. Thanks for having me on, David. Yeah, I've been in human resources now for 20 years, been in about six different industries. And, you know, there's a lot that I enjoy about being an HR leader, but more than anything, I love helping people live better lives in the workplace. And you know, there's really a lot of kind of left brain, right brain fulfillment in the connection of people, versus, you know, the items of being a strategic partner to the C suite and Board of Directors, as you can imagine. So, I love what I do, and I love serving our people and my organization.

 

David Turetsky: 1:53

Awesome. So one fun thing that you may not know about Louie is?

 

Louie Lugo: 2:00

One, one fun thing that most don't know about me is that I won two top five medals in a bodybuilding competition about two years ago in NPC men's physique in November of 2020.

 

David Turetsky: 2:14

That's awesome. And especially during the pandemic, right?

 

Louie Lugo: 2:17

Correct. It was, it was a bit of a therapy project, if you will, during the pandemic. Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 2:25

I think a lot of people lost track or lost their way on some of their body goals during the pandemic, you did the right thing, by being able to achieve something that only a few of us can do, which is do the opposite, and actually get better during the pandemic.

 

Louie Lugo: 2:42

Yeah, well, I, you know, I had quite a bit less to do. I think we all did, we all had much less available to us. And so the gym kind of became my, my therapy play, if you will.

 

David Turetsky: 2:54

That's awesome. So today, we're going to have a fun conversation with Louie, from the chief people officer perspective, by looking at driving positive business results through an inclusive workplace.

 

Louie Lugo: 3:16

Yeah, so David, you know, if we look at the role of the modern chief people officer, and kind of simplified it's about bridging talent strategy and business strategy, right? So, you know, when we look at how to best do that, let's think about culture, improving turnover, creating a sense of belonging, you know, what does that culture look like? And so there's a couple pieces here. Culture is the, it's the cumulative sum of how everyone in the organization shows up every day. That's, that's culture. You know, and I think there's some misconceptions often what culture is or how to drive culture, it's not what HR says it is. It's not what the CEO says it is, or, or wants it to be necessarily. It's, again, the cumulative sum of the entire organization, how they operate, and how they show up to work every day. So what we're seeing is, is a real shift in workplace culture in expectations of the labor pool. And, you know, there's a couple tenants here that I think are very relevant. One is generational. So, you know, when I talk, when I go through onboarding and training with our corporate personnel, our services people, you know, and I talked about our philosophy of support, for example, around unlimited PTO, that unlimited PTO does not mean no PTO, or very limited where you know, there's this odd psychological, professional sociological mechanism that has been prevalent in a number of organizations work, you know, unlimited PTO really means not very much PTO, there's this odd kind of badge of honor, that comes forth that says, Oh, I haven't taken any PTO. So I'm the best employee in the organization.

 

David Turetsky: 5:17

But I think that comes from earning that badge at school, which says, You have never had a sick day. Right? So my kid gets a report card, and on it, it says, how many days were they absent. Well, we kind of carry that guilt around, don't we?

 

Louie Lugo: 5:32

Yeah, that's actually a great connection point that I that I hadn't considered. And, you know, all of this kind of goes back to releasing traumas or draconian ways of doing things. So you know, that's, that's a helpful point, David. But you know, I think what we do here, and I think the philosophy that is now progressing through through the national market is that PTO is important, we want you to take time off, and that's the Win Win. You disconnect, you feel refreshed, you rejuvenate, and you come back as your best self. And so my, my point to this is that, when I go over this with with our new hires, it's interesting from a generational standpoint, because, you know, I, with respect, I think, you know, for our baby boomer population or older Xers, it comes off as a little progressive, or a lot progressive, especially when we talked about other aspects of of an inclusive workplace and how we support the whole human. But when I, when I mentioned this to younger millennials, and Gen Z, it's interesting, because there's there's nonverbal back channeling that's positive, but what I come to find is that it's actually an expectation. And so that's a really stark shift in kind of workplace dynamics around how we support the the individual in the early 21st century here.

 

David Turetsky: 7:01

I think part of it has to do with rules. When we first started talking, you said, you know, when we introduce a concept like unlimited PTO, we immediately find some difference in in how people adopt it. And, you know, let's take those generations. Some of us want to know, well, what's the rule? What is what does unlimited mean? What does it really mean? Because we had these counters, right? We had this accumulator, not only in payroll, in our time system, but in our brain that said, Okay, well, I need to take this many for Thanksgiving, I need to take this many for the summer, I need to take this many for the spring, I need to take this many around Christmas. So this is what I need in total. What What can I get away with? Or what can I do? Right? It's not like in the 50s. And in the early 60s, where you used to be able to take a month off, because that's what everybody did, they took a month off, or they took three months off. And they went away with their families and actually had really close knit relationships fomented, because they got to spend that time together with all of the rest of their family up in like the Catskill Mountains or in Florida or wherever. And so we go back to what's the rule? What are you going to measure me against? Because it's not really unlimited? Right? I mean,

 

Louie Lugo: 8:29

Yeah, yeah. No, it isn't. I think it speaks to a certain, I don't know, to some minor extent, flexibility work from home, but I think the checks and balances that you're referring to, are really kind of around well, you know, if we're going to give you the freedom and kind of the onus around how much time you take off, it's balanced by what you need to accomplish in that role. And and specifically, you know, that year or that time of year. You know, and I think that we're in a similar spot in many organizations with travel, you know, it's like, Great, okay, you're, you're gonna go travel, and you don't necessarily need a strict approval process and such. But, you know, I think what, certainly what I've found over the years is that when you travel, you're, you're working twice as hard for the same level of productivity, often, you know, so it's, it's like, well, yeah, it's unlimited. And there is a certain abundance to that. But the checks and balances is around, you know, what do you need to get done? And what are your organizational contingencies in place for your function while you're out?

 

David Turetsky: 9:41

I just think that there's always going to be a piece of people who look at unlimited PTO and worry about, you know, to your point, they worry about what am I going to miss? How are things going to happen without me and that's why they keep looking at their phone while they're on vacation. And I know, your point isn't that unlimited PTO is is, we're not talking about unlimited PTO, we're talking about being able to set up a culture that would support something like that. And the CPO tries to make change around that, but it takes setting the right business culture or taking the right or borrowing the right pieces of the business culture to be able to enable that. Right.

 

Louie Lugo: 10:27

Right. You know, and I mean, there's, there's a couple pieces here. I mean, clearly, we look over our critical metrics and KPIs or OKRs, you know, what's our turnover rate, what's our cost per hire, our time to fill, you know, your standard metrics, for sure. But I think it's something that really can be, you can look at this through a couple different lenses. And this is where this something that I have a real passion for. So for me, I have this this model of empathy versus accountability. And, you know, one of our company values is, is compassion. And, you know, I think a number of organizations look at values to often be very outward facing, so customer, client, patient facing and that's fine, I understand, you know, kind of that service model, but it's incredibly important that those values are also inward facing. And so compassion and empathy are synonymous for kindness, how we treat each other in the workplace is incredibly important. And I, you know, I would argue that it's, it's underrated, you know, even even in this day and age. And there's a couple pieces here, I mean, you know, if you're treated well, by by your leader, supervisor, manager, and your peers, that feels good. When you, you know, in the empathy piece here, also, it, it represents something even more than that, it's about understanding, having awareness and having some sort of meaningful, proactive support in understanding and caring about how your, how your people feel, you know, the individual, the group, how do you feel today? Do you enjoy what you do? Do you feel empowered, seen, valued and supported to be your best self in the workplace. And that's in a, in a big sense how you create belonging, because if people love what they do with your organization, they, they feel good, they feel connected to that organization, and they feel connected to the people that treat them well. And so, in a nutshell, that's the empathy piece. And for some, maybe that's a little kind of woowoo, or touchy feely, but it's very practical. And, you know, so and the other side of the equation is a little bit more simplified, actually, the accountability piece is like, you know, maybe the argument is, okay, you feel good about what you do here and all of that, that's great, but what are the the actual behaviors or action items that are driving personal, professional and organizational success. And so accountability in again, in a nutshell, is the behaviors that drive positive outcomes. And so that is applicable to everyone but and, of course, will vary from role to role or function to function. But as, as HR leaders, and as non HR managers, that's our opportunity to make sure Okay, we have this good momentum in terms of, of empathy, if you will, there. And then on the accountability pieces, okay, let's get specific. These are the behaviors, these are the objectives or outcomes that we're looking for, from this position or from this function. And, you know, I think that's kind of an equation for success overall, that's very, very near and dear to my heart here.

 

Announcer: 14:03

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David Turetsky: 14:15

So Louie, let me bring up what I think is a follow on to what you were just talking about, which was accountability. And the accountability of while accountability is self explanatory, how does it fit with empathy? How does that piece together because they are two different concepts, right?

 

Louie Lugo: 14:37

They are, I mean, you know, accountability, again, is are the behaviors that we are looking to see and witness from our from our people, the empathy piece is, do they have all the resources to accomplish that, to feel good about doing that? And and feel valued? You know, because everyone has a certain job if what we do is a team sport. And not every position looks the same. And, and you know, everyone has an important role. So the two together is, you know, kind of the emotional support and resources of Do you have what you need to succeed. And then the other piece, the accountability section is more of being specific about what those behaviors look like.

 

David Turetsky: 15:29

If you talk about and you were talking before about the generations, and I'm wondering, do you find that this is more accommodating for the variances in the generations? Or is it a way to be able to ensure that that all of the generations are getting what they need from the workplace to be supported?

 

Louie Lugo: 15:51

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think one way to sum that up a little bit is, you know, I think we've seen a stark shift over the last, say, 40 years. And it was about 40 years ago, when, you know, the term HR business partner was first coined, and, you know, that really marked the beginning or the genesis of a shift in human resources overall, you know, I mean, it became this, it went from this very transactional, I nine, W four, keep our employer out of the courtroom type of thing.

 

David Turetsky: 16:31

Very administrative. Yeah.

 

Louie Lugo: 16:32

Very administrative, right. And, you know, it was also this model of what's the least amount of HR we can have in our organization. And I, you know, that's kind of still when we talk about Lean HR, it still feels very late 20th century, very draconian. And it's interesting, because, you know, what we have now shifted to is this other model, or at least we are shifting to, should I say, where it's more akin to provider to patient ratios, or student teacher ratios. I mean, the more skilled, experienced, aligned people ops professionals that you have supporting and developing your organization that, you know, the, the more you're going to see from, from that department, and, and ideally, the maturity of your organization. So but, you know, to your point, more specifically, one of the big shifts that we're seeing is this kind of organizational leadership narrative that says, What can we get from our employees? What can we get from them? Well, that's interesting. And that is kind of how it's felt in that part of the timeline. And that is, in a big sense why, you know, HR has a bad rap. And and that's very much shifted with the younger generations, I think COVID certainly played some meaningful part in that as well and in accelerating workplace trends. And so now the shift is, what can we do for our people? What can we do for our team, and that's how we derive the most value from them, where they feel seen, valued and supported. And they have a sense of belonging to the organization. That's when we see people at their best not when, you know, we're trying to squeeze water from a stone or something it's about, it's much more akin to watering your garden, and making sure it has appropriate sunlight type of thing. So it's a it's a stark model contrast there.

 

David Turetsky: 18:44

But I do feel that there are differences in how HR has to support the different generations, because there's an expectation that, I hate to use the word millennials, but you know, Gen Z and millennials and baby boomers, they want different things from their managers, they want different things from the organization, they want different things from HR, they ask for things somewhat passively, sometimes, and somewhat actively. I've literally had situations where, as a manager, I've had conversations with parents about the performance review of their kids. And that would never have happened in my generation. Ever, you know, I'm sorry, why are you calling because I gave your child to a performance review. And you didn't agree with it. This is this conversation is not happening.

 

Louie Lugo: 19:35

Wow. fairly shocking.

 

David Turetsky: 19:37

But but it is, but But I mean, I would never, you know, when I got my first performance review, when I was I was a consultant. It must have been at Towers Perrin. I'll never forget it, because it's what you'd think of as the traditional performance evaluation. You know what happened in you know, you did your goals first, and after a year, you got your evaluation, and I felt walking out of there, like really bad because I didn't live up to the expectations of my boss. And, you know, just having graduated college, I felt like I got an F and it shouldn't have been like that. But that's what the feedback mechanism was. And so I think that if I, if I kind of go a different direction from where you're headed a little bit, I'd say, don't we, as generations expect different things from our organization to be able to be supported and feel like we're, we're successful?

 

Louie Lugo: 20:32

Yeah, I think I think that's a pretty fair point, you know, again, the support model that, that I'm expressing today is, it's also about meeting people where they are. So you know, it's not, hey, this is our new progressive model. This is what the younger generations, you know, need and want, and you need to conform because it's 2022. No, no, that that's not it. And that's a great question there. No, I think it's very much about being aware of where everyone needs to be supported. And, you know, I think another important piece of this is that there has been a lot of generational demonizing in all directions. And it's just not helpful. You know, and I mean, I won't date myself, but what I what I can notice, is that through the full range of generations, well, I mean, let's take the younger side for, for the perspective sake, you know, and maybe some anger or what have you, with the older generations? Like, why does it need to be so structured? Why do we need to do it this way, that has doesn't work anymore, and maybe it never did, like, all these things. And, and that's, that's fine. But I think there's, again, there's a piece of empathy and compassion, and an understanding that's very important here is that everyone is the sum of their experiences. Right. And that's really important to understand. So it's great, you know, if you're on the younger side of the generational spectrum, and you've had great models around continuous feedback, and, you know, being open with your, your feelings, and and, you know, what have you, that's great, awesome, but not everyone had that. We, you know, we didn't have that earlier in the in the 20th century. So expecting someone to conform or to operate in that framework, that mindset, it, it, you know, that's it's unrealistic. And it's kind of unkind, you know. The other side of the coin, which I think is also very relevant, if you're on the older side of the generational spectrum. And, you know, it's like, well, wow, you have some pretty, you know, looking at the younger side, while you have some pretty unrealistic expectations about what this can be from a whole, you know, number of different lenses. And then, you know, I think another common narrative with some amount of validity is, Wow, your communication style is a bit abrupt, and at times, maybe lack of better words, but too forward or could be a bit more aggressive, or manicured? Yeah. And so I think, you know, one of the big takeaways from this that's, that's really important is that every every generation can learn from others. And when we meet people at where they are, and we support them there, then it really does create a certain cultural harmony in the organization, that when, you know, we kind of leave the ego at the door. And we're allowed to, or we're invited to be our best selves, and learn from others. That's where there's a real synergy that starts to take place.

 

David Turetsky: 24:00

And I think what's important is being able to have managers who can celebrate the differences, and leverage HR for helping kind of create the right equilibrium points, and the right connections, so that we can achieve business success. And we leverage HR in order not to be the culture champions, but to be the glue that makes sure that cultures are being celebrated, not feared or not being discriminated against. And while we're talking right now about generational intersectionality, and generational differences, I mean, that same conversation can happen across different backgrounds, right in different cultures. And so it becomes a Rubik's cube of being a being complex that the business leader and the manager need to be able to become really good partners in making sure that all of that difference can be celebrated, not feared, not not squashed, not not harmonized, I guess as a way of saying it. And being able to be successful, like you were mentioning language, right? Obviously, generational language is completely different. Let's just put it that way. But the same thing happened when I joined the workforce back in 1989. Right, I came in to a very still 1980s 1970s, thought, school of thought around management and HR. And as we started getting into the 90s, things started to change a little bit. And we were those young kids coming into the workforce. And so this is a cyclical issue. But it seems like now I'm the old guy. And now I have to be able to conform and make sure that I'm not, that I'm taking the best, to your point, I'm taking the best of everyone's selves, and celebrating them, and making sure that we can all work together effectively for business outcome, right?

 

Louie Lugo: 26:13

Yeah, absolutely. That's really important to consider, and our environment is ever evolving. Right? So there's, there is a certain cyclicality to it that will probably continue ad nauseum.

 

David Turetsky: 26:29

Yeah, well, with every new generation that comes in, there's going to be something different about them. And we're going to have to celebrate them, find ways of doing that.

 

Louie Lugo: 26:44

Yeah. And you know, you mentioned intersectionality. And I wanted to bridge that conversation as well. You know, what's interesting about what we do in Gallas is that we are, we're exceptional at what we do treating substance use disorder and mental health concerns, and those are intimately coupled. We're very good at what we do. And we have a very unique patient care model and staffing model. And what we do is very different, it's hard to see as we look around the healthcare landscape to identify anyone that looks like us. And so with that, some challenges and, and some opportunities. One of them is directly linked to intersectionality, and how we how we promote a sense of belonging in the workplace, because we want to make sure that we attract all of the A players. And, you know, when we look at who we need, in our clinics to be most successful, we can't just have any nurse. You know, we need to have ER nurses or ED nurses, we can't just have any tech or CNA, we need to have CNAs, who are good at what they do, and they're reliable. And and there's a certain amount of longevity. And, you know, clearly right there just in the healthcare realm with the National turnover rates on the average, right there that's, that's market resistance and a certain tall order. But again, you know, when we look at how we can align and attract the best talent to our clinics, we have to be we have to be fully inclusive. And, you know, I think, again, part of the shift that you were asking about earlier, is from what can we get to how can we support and give I think it's also about doing the right thing. Right? Plain and simple. And doing the right thing is, has not been especially popular or consistent in in the workplace. You know, it was not too long ago that it wasn't okay to be gay, or what have you. It was it was very much this work life separation. That was very much the expectation. And I think, you know, at this point, we've been saying work life balance for 20 plus years, I think we're moving into a into a part of the timeline where it's more work life integration, and how again, we support the whole person.

 

David Turetsky: 29:19

Yes, I mean, when you came to work, you didn't actually come to work. You brought your professional self to work, and you left your emotional self at home. And it was really dare I say, it was it was a lie. We weren't able to bring our actual real selves to work. We couldn't show emotion. We couldn't show what was happening with our rest of our lives. Because people would say that's not professional. You don't do that. Well. We're working from home for the love of God and that's where a lot of us a lot of us can't remove ourselves from home because we're at home. And not only that, but if we've lied about who we were, and we've lied about what we are to the workplace, then we haven't brought our true self. And we haven't given of everything. And that takes a lot of our performance out of the equation, doesn't it?

 

Louie Lugo: 30:14

Spot on and that's, that's at the core of the philosophy that feels right, and is very close to my mind and heart. And, you know, again, I mean, that's really, that's a great way to put it, David, I mean, we, we weren't bringing our whole selves to the workplace. And, you know, clearly, I mean, there's a line, there's, there's a line of professional expectations and behaviors, you know, that's always in play. But again, if you're able to bring your whole self to the, to the workplace, you're, you're going to feel better, you're going to, you know, your, your productivity, your output, your contribution to the organization, will be will be a better results. And, you know, so I, I put myself in that anything that I, I expect or that I invite others to do, I shine the mirror on myself, I, you know, looking at myself, and so, a lot of people, you know, this is kind of from a DEI and B, and intersectionality lens, a lot of people see me, they, they just think some white HR guy, and I'm like, Well, okay, there's a whole lot more there than that, you know, I'm Yeah, 100% Puerto Rican, I, let's see, you know, we mentioned the body building piece, that's a side hobby. I've been doing this since 2005. I'm a member of the LGBTQ community. And you know, I'm a veteran, I served seven years in the Army Reserves. So, you know, and not all..

 

David Turetsky: 31:47

Thank you for your service.

 

Louie Lugo: 31:48

Thank you. Not all of those pieces need to come out every day. But I think, again, for our people to be fully seen, and valued is incredibly important. And the further we get into the future timeline here, the more relevant that becomes. Here's a good example of something fairly recent happened earlier this year, it was an interview for one of our managers. And she said, me and my wife, you know, it's like, oh, great, okay, there's a certain subtle, personal vulnerability, that, you know, years ago, would would likely be shunned upon or, you know, it's like, well, we don't need to know that, you know.

 

David Turetsky: 32:27

Right. Sure. Why would you bring that up? It's awful to do that. But, but the stress that puts on that person for not being able to be honest about themselves, is just awful.

 

Louie Lugo: 32:38

Right, right. You know, and so the shift that we're seeing in that regard, it again, it's the right thing to do, you can look at it from either lens, I mean, it's the right thing to do, and that feels good. Or if you want to be completely cerebral about it, attracting the best talent, because you're the most inclusive. So do you have the most access to the, you know, the statistical probability that you get the best talent for your organization? I mean, you could go that way. For me, I have, I feel compelled to approach the situation on both ends simultaneously.

 

David Turetsky: 33:18

I think about it is, there's so much stress we have in our personal lives, that the more stress we put on people, to not be their actual selves coming to work, that they're afraid of being seen as being anything but professional, whatever that means, in that context, that they, they lose, we lose part of them, and they don't feel like they belong. And so that's why I love BRGs that, wrap their arms around people and say, our company's comfortable being who we are being what we are. So whether you're a veteran, whether you're LGBTQ plus, whether you're Puerto Rican, or Jewish or whatever, we love you for who you are. We're celebrating you for who you are. And if you want to feel more comfortable, and you want to get together and talk about it, do that! It really does enable people to let everything out and to become and to feel like this company wants me to be who I am. And then that and I'm not I don't have the statistics I wish I did to talk about how if people feel more comfortable, there is a better probability that there's better client outcomes. There's better partnership outcomes inside the organization and between organizations and you get better scores, you get better OKRs or KPIs or whatever. I can't imagine there wouldn't be, would there?

 

Louie Lugo: 34:50

Not that I can see. You know, I think a lot of it is about dispelling what we have long considered to be unprofessional via these sociological connotations that say something, whatever that something is, is not professional. And you know, like tattoos are are another piece of that. I have over 50 hours of ink on me. You know, I also have a bachelor's, master's and a doctorate. I've been a SHRM Senior Certified Professional since 2017. And I have a real passion and commitment to what I do as an HR leader and these these, these connotations have hurt us, they have really diminished the human value, and how we see each other, and, and how we, you know, it's all about unlocking that potential and that value for for everyone to be their their best selves, and every lever that we can pull on to promote that is going to help us really move the needle moving forward. And that's that's important.

 

David Turetsky: 36:10

Louie, I think we've covered a lot of really cool ground here. And while we can talk about this for hours, in order to be mindful of our listeners, why don't we wrap up?

 

Louie Lugo: 36:20

That sounds great. Thanks for having me on the show. I really appreciate it.

 

David Turetsky: 36:23

Thank you. Is there anything else you want to cover before we end? I would say don't worry, if you there are other things you want to talk about, we can have you back again. And you can talk about it on the next one.

 

Louie Lugo: 36:36

Well, I think I would, I'd be remiss if I did not mention my organization and what we do and our passion for doing it. But I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the our national admissions line of 888-306-3122.

 

David Turetsky: 36:55

And we're gonna put that in the show notes as well. And I think it bears repeating. And thank you for everything you do. Thank you for who you are, and for bringing your actual self to work. And we appreciate you being on the show.

 

Louie Lugo: 37:08

Thank you, David. Honored to be here today. And thank you so much.

 

David Turetsky: 37:12

My pleasure. And thank you for listening, take care and stay safe.

 

Announcer: 37:17

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