Lessons Learned from 100 People Analytics Deployments

Connect with Jon:

Connect with David:

• 
• 
• david@turetskyconsulting.com

Resources:

• Visier
• HR Data Labs Season 2 Episode 4
• HR Data Labs Season 2 Episode 2

• “I’ll see organizations that will use analytics as more of a glorified version of reporting.” – Jon Burton 

• “The goal here is to enable HR Business Partners to understand how they’re going to drive action.”  – Jon Burton 

• “Being able to show business value really makes people-analytics become less about HR and more about how HR can become a resource to the business that is required.” – David Turetsky

Announcer: 0:03
Here’s an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what’s happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record, pour their discussions into a beaker, mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR data labs Podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, but count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here’s your host, David Turetsky.

David Turetsky: 0:54
Hello, and welcome to the HR data labs podcast. I’m your host, David Turetsky. And like always, we try and find fascinating people with fascinating topics to talk about the world of HR data and analytics. Today, we have john Burton from Vizier. Hello, john, how are you? I’m doing well. David, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. Wonderful. So john, why don’t you give us a little bit about your background from Vizier and before Vizier.

Jon Burton: 1:18
So I’ve been with Vizier for the past seven years. And in that role, I’ve been able to partner with many, many clients along with people I’m with external, my role is not technical. It’s more of a strategic change. management can include content devising around training rollout best practices. So it’s been a very, very fun role as people have workspaces grown and be able to see some of the companies and partner with them along the journeys. And prior to that, I spent 13 years with PWC, and Saratoga Institute, helping organizations measure and benchmark their workforce. So that proved to be a nice kind of foot in the door, around all things along the HR and workforce journey. So it’s been a very fun experience getting from there to here.

David Turetsky: 2:00
Awesome. Well and we’re gonna dive into that a little bit. But one fun thing that you may not know about Jon, Jon, I hate to say this, but you almost died twice. That’s pretty awful.

Jon Burton: 2:11
Indeed, I did. Thankfully, I did not successfully achieve death in either incident. Episode One was at a rock concert, the band Metallica, my brother’s friends and I went to a concert. And we’re moving our way up front. I was in my late 20s. And we started to fall and went with the crowd. And I Gosh, remember holding my brother’s arm. And he looked at me, and then I couldn’t get up. And I was down for about a minute and a half. I kept on trying to get up and I couldn’t, Oh, my God. And then I gave up and then some large muscle bound security man got me up. But then I spent the rest about half the rest of the concert in a daze because I lost oxygen. It was not pleasant.

David Turetsky: 2:47
Oh, my gosh. So you were trampled.

Jon Burton: 2:50
Yes, more or less, I didn’t get stepped on, but I didn’t get air for a long period of time, which was not good. And then Episode Two was in the Utah desert, my brother and I went on a bike ride that we thought would be about an hour and a half, but ended up being about 20 hours and ran out of both food and water. We spent the night in the wilderness. And I’m happy to report that, at least for me, when I ran out of food and water, water was more important than food first got back to the car that firsthand was a beverage not food. So I thankfully survived in both instances, provide a perspective that I’m just grateful to be able,

David Turetsky: 3:21
And you should not be going anywhere with your brother anymore. We all learn a good good story there. So yeah, definitely. So today’s topic, john is going to be the lessons that you learned from helping over 100 implementations of people analytics. That’s a lot.

Jon Burton: 3:40
Indeed, it is. Yeah, I I’ve been fortunate to, again, have the opportunity to partner with lots of organizations, various levels of maturity. And some of the things that I’ve seen are very important are, you know, we have a lot of clients who I see will come in, who will start just beginning wondering, hey, I want to do this analytics thing. So this is the new hot topic. So they will buy analytics, but they won’t really have a problem to solve. So this would kind of be at the more basic end of kind of maturity. So they like the concept of analytics, they’ve got the right goals, but maybe not quite the right people in place, they may have a team that is doing both analytics and reporting and a single or a single person doing both analytics reporting. So they’ll be able to stand up a platform like like Vizier or other solutions that are out there that are also quite good. But they won’t be able to really do analytics. And for me analytics is we’re not just getting data out to an end user, we’re getting data out to an user, we’re partnering to solve a problem. So it’s great if you can tell me what my turnover is, but you can help me partner on how to reduce it or improve it or focus in on a key population. Give me an actual insight. That’s what I need to get. So at the basic end, I’ll see organizations that will use analytics is kind of more of a glorified version of reporting. They may have predictive analytics capabilities that are embedded into that. They may be able to have a standardized way of looking at turnover that we’ll run across. It’s different sources, but it’s not really starting to solve the problem. So that’s been kind of one lesson learned that there is a larger percentage. And I would want organizations that would kind of put into that bucket.

David Turetsky: 5:11
But But john, I think that you kind of set it yourself that a lot of companies start with reporting. And reporting is one way for them to get insight out of their human capital management system investments. And that’s where most begin, because that’s what gets bundled in. And, you know, for them, the journey starts with understanding the data that they have at their fingertips. And then, you know, that discovery process, the mention of what kind of problems Am I solving, that’s a higher order level problem that may not actually fall into the purview of the people who are asking for the reports. But it may be the purview of people who are either senior leaders or people outside of the HR world, who are asking questions that reporting was never intended to actually solve.

Jon Burton: 6:04
Correct. And I will also kind of add to that, David and say that for many the organizations I work with, there will be a period of reconciliation of if they’re using a tool that will not massage the data, but give people direct access to what’s there. I’ve just reconciliation that yet. HR. And workforce data is not perfect, it’s messy. There are retroactive transactions, there are things like that that can and do occur. And it can be messy with and other data sources. But so what that translates into is there can be some confusion within users of well, headcount said this last month, I’m seeing turnover, you know, went up or down two tenths of a percentage point, the key insight that I want folks to kind of wrap their heads around is that’s less important than direction is it going up? Is it going down, which groups are being most impacted. And so that’s, I think, the kind of area that we try to guide our clients towards.

David Turetsky: 6:52
A lot of time though, that’s cultural, and it may actually come from which department is actually seeing those changes, I will tell you that having dealt with the CFOs office, they’re very particular, they’re peculiar as well, in a good way. But they’re very particular because numbers are their business. And when you tell them that there are 50 heads in a specific group, and their numbers say that there’s only 49, they’re going to wrestle that one down to the ground to ensure that they understand it. And then if in the future that changes, and HR says something else, then that’s another thing to wrestle. And so culturally, I think always, when you’re dealing with groups inside the company like CFOs, office, you are going to have that struggle. And I think that maybe one of the things we want to talk about in your lessons learned is, how does HR deal with those differences throughout the organization? How do they come to common ground with those other users back to the data, you’re talking about that messiness of the data?

Jon Burton: 7:53
Yeah, I’ve seen that be a journey and a journey that suggests a level of sophistication for organization. So at one end, I had a client that asked, Can we make the Vizier tool, not incorporate retroactive transaction, so what was once March 2021, data will never change. That’s not really how it works. So at the other end of that, I’m seeing increasing amount of clients who recognize the value of partnering with functions outside of HR, like finance, to have them all aligned on Okay, here’s a definition of headcount, there may be some difference in terms of what you’re thinking about. But there’s some value in a consistent standard throughout the enterprise. And if we say headcount is 10,563. And you’ve got 10,568. Hey, we’re in pretty much the same basic bucket, we can quibble about some things. But having that same number, not confusing the CEO or other key members of leadership team that may see a different data set from different people that are all right, but are not the same value can only cause confusion. So I’m seeing a number of my clients with a go through a journey to start to educate finance about what is that? How do we look at an HR? Why may it change, you know, and I see empower great conversations, because HR may not look at the world constantly. So we’ll see clients will bring in a cost center hierarchy to kind of align to the world in the way that HR looks at nature can educate finance on the ways of the world that they’re looking at. and other cuts of data that perhaps a employee will see like job title, rather than just a high level job family can help add value for everyone. So that’s been fun to see. And I’m seeing a lot more that happened with my clients.

David Turetsky: 9:21
One of the things we’ve actually had conversations with with our clients as they’re in that journey, is create what we like to call a data governance model where there are clear definitions to your point, establish definitions establish a good understanding about what it is we mean when we’re talking about certain things. So that when it is presented to those groups, they have a very clear picture because there is a taxonomy associated with it. There is a glossary, there’s there are definitions set up there even formulae that are actually spelled out quite clearly, that show people whether it’s in finance or other organizations, even the CEO office where, you know, when we say we’re there, 49 people, this is what we mean, whether it’s FTE’s, whether it’s butts in seats. And that data governance model provides a really good context, as you’re we are talking about for that maturity of the organization to consume those analytics. I’m nodding, which doesn’t go through well on a podcast? Yes, the listeners have not heard the nodding. But yes, they understand it.

Jon Burton: 10:26
But yeah, I agree strongly with that. And something else that I’ll add to that I’m gonna Yes And you, David is, I think it’s important that so I see some of my clients will say, Yep, my role is analytics plus data governance, but they don’t have the authority. So there needs to be authority tied to that, because we can check a box to say, Yep, here’s our standard. But if there isn’t that executive sponsorship to say, this is Wait, where’d you get your data from? It’s not from this and your definition of consent for the mind. And here’s why and, or here’s turnover, right? So there’s always going to be that desire, I want it my own unique way to tell a unique story that can be fine. And that can be one approach. But I think it’s much cleaner and crisper, that we’re all operating with the same set of assumptions and understanding,

David Turetsky: 11:05
Totally agree. And actually, I love the idea of an executive sponsor, not being the CHRO, by the way, somebody outside of the HR organization, who can provide a level of authority. And a level of example, you know, that person, that executive becomes the person who then champions the world of HR analytics in their business. And does what I’ve talked on this podcast many times, which is having an example that you can point to and say, This is business data, not HR data. So stop calling it HR analytics, it’s business analytics would mean we know it’s people analytics, or HR analytics. But that person can espouse that this is something that the business needs to adopt as its own, and to cease calling it or treating it like, it’s just another thing out of HR,

Jon Burton: 11:53
David, if I can, yes and you again, with a quick example of one of my clients, if we think about, you know, as we’re kind of guiding our clients along a path of rolling out to people analytics solution. Part of that change management in reality, we would always want a non HR executive sponsor, but in reality, even getting a senior the CHRO on board can be challenging for some organizations. So just sharing what I’ve seen in my experiences, but I’m going to now kind of marry that with one of my clients went out with the largest and most profitable part of the business, that was their pilot group. So they rolled out to that person, that person then rolled out to the C suite, meaning it was an amazing, just, you know, that they were super thoughtful in terms of how they approached it. And that’s driven dramatic action. So I’ve heard stories back from this client that the CEO will pepper the the CHRO, with questions about, Hey, what do you see turnover in this group, because the CEO was in looking at the data and wants to make sure that the CHRO was also look at the same data set. So I mean, that’s just a great story of, you know, starting at the top, getting those executive sponsors that can have a real meaningful impact on this type of rollout.

David Turetsky: 13:12
So john, what characteristics or practices have you observed from these clients? And let’s try and bucket them into companies that are still pretty basic around their analytics, their average, or their advanced? What are the differences between companies that you find in those three different buckets.

Jon Burton: 13:32
So I’m going to start and we’ll work up the maturity curve here. So in terms of the basic, what I’ve seen in this can range size, you know, it’s it’s not like all large global companies do this? Well, I’ve seen small, scrappy organizations be along every phase of these maturity models. But at the most basic, I see organizations that again, kind of were bought people analytics as a way, because they’re hearing more about this, they don’t necessarily have a key business or HR problem to solve, because I think we can start with an HR problem, I may be able to drive down time to fill and the business may not care about that. But if I can do that, we’re still trying to solve a problem. But if I don’t really have a problem, or consistently have a problem, I can bring data in push data out, but to what end. So that would be kind of the basic end there. There’s not really necessarily desire to create or enforce data standards, we were talking about that before David, where each group can have their own desire, how they want to look at turnover. So that may result in least in my world, we create perhaps custom metrics are custom calculations, you know, so one group may look at turnover with one definition of average head count, another group may look at it based off another, that’s not really optimizing, what we should be doing is we’re looking to roll out a new solution as a fancy opportunity to kind of pause and say, Hey, we’re going to separate let’s go do this. Right.

David Turetsky: 14:46
Right. And have people speak the same language and have have that common definition. Yeah,

Jon Burton: 14:50
Correct. Yeah. So yeah. And I think that that’s critical. And then I’ll also see and I’ve kind of observed this in my time. So at the more basic level, I seen organizations with you There’s kind of that field of dreams that I build it they will come. Again, if we’re just pushing data out without context, business problem, a sponsor, people holding other people accountable my experiences, HR business partners will want to do this. And they’re often a conduit from what I see with my clients out to the business. But they’ll often get, again, kind of overtaken by the other kind of less strategic, but necessary items that are required of an HR business partner. Sure. So they make a focus in on that. And the other items, David, that we’ll see is, in terms of kind of what they would do with a workout at the more basic level, it’s going to be just training and to make people aware of it, there you go. And there was, so there’s not necessarily accountability, there’s not follow, it’s there, I’m checking a box that I made this available. So those would all be characteristics of kind of at the more basic level, we move up the maturity curve and go to something that’ll be on the more common side average, if you will, there is a problem to solve that the HR team is focused on that they’re going to often roll this out in what I’ll call waves. So we one may be kind of the core people analytics team, reporting team Service Center can be some of those early stakeholders HRBPs centers of excellence, and then maybe senior leaders. So that would be kind of, you know, we’re getting this out beyond just a real limited scope pushing stuff to more people. But we’re pushing this out with maybe limited guidance people I like see me just saying, Here you go. They’re trying to do the right things. But they’re constrained in terms of time and resources. So it’s their their requests are coming in, it’s often a request, Hey, can you create the type of visualization help answer this question? How can I answer this type of question? So in effect, the people on the team can become more like quazi Report Builder versus more of that key strategic business partner. So sure that that leaves to me just opportunities on the table. Because again, my belief is people analytics is we’re there to solve a problem. Absolutely. And then at the advanced. So here, we’re going to certainly have a business problem to be solving. And we’re going to use that data. So there’s a kind of unknown issue that we’re looking to solve the tool that you’ll be using, or leveraging would help address that and address quickly. And the goal here is to enable HR business partner to understand how they’re going to drive action. And let me share a quick example of what I saw with one of my clients who did something like this, I thought was super thoughtful. So they rolled out to their HR business partner team. But and this is a common challenge I see with a lot of my clients is the HR business partners are well intentioned, but just don’t necessarily have perhaps the skill set to be data savvy, as a broad brush. There are some HR business partners were fantastic. Sure, yeah. So what this organization did was they set up through the CHRO was kind of their executive sponsor, and they gave their HR business partners one of three problems to focus on. So each HR business partner chose a problem partner with the people analytics team who went with them to go through analyze the data, tell a story to their peers about what they saw, and enable that conversation with other HR business partners around, here’s what I saw with my group, here’s how it looked to address it. And that empowered different conversations to major business partners in terms of you know, how to not just look at the data, but how to think talk about and drive action. So that was a great example of a witness beyond.

David Turetsky: 18:08
It’s also really a great skill building, because you’ll get people in various groups in an HR organization that will feel comfortable, and some that will not feel comfortable having that same conversation. But as they’re sharing it, what happens is, is that people see that they can literally use this to their advantage instead of fearing it, and overcome those fears, by having those conversations and by seeing the results in those other groups. So I love your point, I think it’s a really good one. And it also demystifies you know why we’re talking about this analytics thing? analytics is not a four letter word. And it’s definitely not something that, you know, we should be afraid of, or we should go back to our economics classes and the statistics class in college and worry about them either, you know, and I think that’s what a lot of HR people do. They think of this as a higher order problem. But it’s not it’s something that they’re solving every day. And if they have their peers around them to bounce these ideas off of then, all better.

Jon Burton: 19:09
And good again I’m going to yes and you David and I will suggest that I hear a lot of organizations say you know, who wants to see the table, but this is the opportunity to do that, right? Let’s go proactively do the business. We may not hit everything just right. We may not tell the right story. We may not have it right solution to the problem, but we’re trying to problem solve with them versus, hey, I need a set of anniversaries that are coming up my group. So we’re trying to say, Hey, I noticed your head count went up or down in this group. I think this is a key group for us. Are there things that we can help partner on to go address? I think just having a conversation is gonna start to move that needle very much in the right direction.

David Turetsky: 19:43
You know, john, one of the other things I found in organizations that succeed with people analytics is they do have one or two very skilled HR people, not on the people analytics team, but that act is the conduits act as the resources, there are generalists that you know, will turn to them and will say Hey, hey, can I ask you a question about this stuff? Can I bounce some ideas off of you? Am I looking at the data the right way? Or am I seeing a flaw here, you know, before they call error or before they, you know, throw in the white towel, before they say I give up, I have people to talk to have the best of your company, step up and take the mantle of being the coach on the team that can help them solve these problems, these business problems, and literally be a problem solver. And, you know, be the go to people. And you know, it does take a little bit of volunteering, it does take a little bit of action to be able to have that happen. But I’ve actually seen that work quite nicely.

Jon Burton: 20:40
I have as well. And for some of our clients, so called the kind of their champion network, and especially exactly organizations that are globally based, you know, there’s often kind of the people analytics Center of Excellence is in headquarters. So they may be distributed timezone wise from other folks. So yeah, being able to empower that. So someone does have to wait 12 hours to get a response, right is super impactful. And I’ve seen that Yeah, work well, where there’s that extension is out in the field kind of gathering, they know what their business units are looking for. And then they can go to the centralized team for those more detailed questions, or those additional kind of heavier end support requests.

David Turetsky: 21:13
So john, what makes an organization advanced around people analytics,

Jon Burton: 21:17
It would be working towards or solving those business problems, not just data. So volume of data is certainly not it. But being able to let me say that so I see some clients were being able to just focus in on first year turnover, being able to solve that identify what are drivers related to that we’re risk pockets? That’s a pretty basic issue, but an impactful issue for a number of our clients. So it’s not that I have to go tying and tie engagement data to the what’s the source of hire? And how did that go in which what you’re getting the best results, the most diverse candidates. So it can start with something basic, but it needs to tie to the needs of the business. So if I’m trying to talk to industry like utilities, and start to talk to them about you know, quality of higher issues, probably not going to care about that as much as a retail or a health care system. So it’s solving a relevant problem to your business is what’s going to be I think, dictating what is a mature organization, but we may not, again, have some Harvard Business Journal case study where the case, but let’s start to go partner with business, let’s start to build up some material, some other opportunities. And we can start to do that we are going to help our organization, we’re gonna help ourselves, and we’re gonna help us get some additional resources to empower people analytics team as time goes on, as we start to show some of that value we’re able to provide,

David Turetsky: 22:34
That’s great. As we talked about before, being able to show business value really makes people analytics become, as we talked about, less about HR, and more about how does HR become a resource to the business that is required, forget about getting a seat at the table. It makes HR indispensable, when you’re providing business insights to those business leaders that they cannot get on their own. We have something in HR, it’s actually a really cool thing. It’s the data about those business leaders most important resource we have that it’s ours. And for us to be able to turn that to their advantage and give them insights that they couldn’t get otherwise, that makes it great. I agree.

Announcer: 23:19
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David Turetsky: 23:35
So let’s go on to topic number three, Jon. Where can a user actually begin to be able to make some headway and be able to get through that maturity curve, either from basic to average, or from average to advance? making that step from basic all the way to advanced seems like a pipe dream? But how do they move up that curve,

Jon Burton: 23:57
Just starting with something it’s it’s start with a basic problem, starting with some basic data, wrap your head around the data, wrap your head around the ugliest of the data, do what we can display standards, reconcile process issues that may exist, just start with something if we just put basic headcount data out there, and turnover data, we’re already doing something better than probably some of the leaders can see elsewhere. So you know, I’ve seen leaders that are just wowed by that. Now you can filter this and slice and dice and remove my contractors just from a contractor positions, just starting somewhere, having discussion not trying to get perfection, I will caution your listeners to also say that volume of data presented in a report or any type of analysis isn’t going to be valuable. I hear a lot of people who sure are confident that my leaders like a lot of data they like they like seeing a tables with 65 rows and 18 columns of information, and no, so it’s another don’t start simple. You know, something that my current employer has provided an opportunity to do is we can do what’s called the link analysis. So I can have a basic summary. And then from that, I can kind of choose my own adventure, I want to go double click down sure into turnover, I want to double click down into span of control. So again, just starting with something presenting that to an end user having a discussion having data, different driven discussion. And then this work, we started the top the discussion with data governance, but also what’s the strategy for this, because what may happen for some clients that I see is, there’s a goal to, we may have the same set of definitions for what we’re describing as turnover. But I may not have a consistent process. And I may have to do one report for David, another report for Jon, another report for Jane so far, where we can standardize things and make them a little bit more consistent across the enterprise. And it’s gonna make it easier. So starting with something with a basic view, a standardized view, a consistent set of topics, empower HR business partners, not to just share the data, but to start to look to partner with their leaders and know who within HR to go work with if there’s an issue around talent management, there’s an issue around hiring, they know where to go to insert to bring in the relevant stakeholders to drive action.

David Turetsky: 26:03
Absolutely. And so Jon, people tend to like to do things by themselves. We’ve talked a lot about having an executive sponsor, we talked a lot about being able to find people who are champions inside the group, let’s say you are one person who’s a reporting person inside your organization, and you’re hoping to start to build the business case, for being able to build the people analytics function, or the people analytics capabilities, whether it’s tobiah, Vizier or to just utilize the data you have and to start, where would someone begin to be able to try and get the groundswell and the investment to be able to build that out?

Jon Burton: 26:44
So in, I’m going to list ideal state not knowing the realities of each listener. Yeah, that would be the ideal state would be to partner with the head of HR and say okay, all things being equal. There’s different problems, I can put the sub focus on what’s most critical to you, and is there a particular business unit that you feel if we could show some value would be an advocate and could help us tell the story make the case of the value of money. So I would work to identify because again, something that I may find interesting, may not really move the needle for the business. So looking to your leader sure to help guide and help guide you towards the right area, because they likely have speculate more insight than you then go start to get present some basic information, let’s hear what’s their pain points are something that I’ve heard David, in my time is some of the pain points of visits later, maybe esoteric things that many organizations don’t capture data on. I want to know the knowledge, skills and abilities for my workforce in five years. That’s a great goal. I want to understand that the ROI, which training programs are going to yield the highest sprinkle, probably not achievable as part of a phase one. So now starting with, is there some lower hanging fruit around turnovers, there’s some learning fruit around, there’s hiring issues, there’s some orientation around a key role, we’re seeing some challenges. Looking at that. That’s where I would I would advise to stop.

David Turetsky: 28:02
That’s great. So Jon, we talked a lot about how to people learn from your experiences and the lessons over the hundreds of deployments that you’ve done in people analytics, we talked about the kinds of things that you’ve seen across all of those different implementations. We’ve talked about the characteristics of what makes a company starting at the basic maturity level, where they are is average and some of the issues with being an advanced group in people analytics. And then we talked about lessons that you’ve learned about where can people start? Is there anything else that you wanted to add that might help the listeners with their people analytics journey?

Jon Burton: 29:00
Just begin recognize that even finance data isn’t perfect. I think HR has a little bit of a chip on its shoulder that it feels like there’s something wrong with us. We’re so far behind everyone else. But no other data sets perfect finances, restating data on a regular basis, but there is at least a consistent standard. So go make a consistent standard for your organization. Get it out there, share it, be that strategic partner, if you don’t quite get it, right. That’s okay. It’s the lesson learned. We’re going to get better with our next discussion over the next week or so just just start don’t wait for perfection.

David Turetsky: 29:31
Don’t wait for those two hands pushing in the back. You’ve got to take the initiative. Jon, thank you very much for joining and for your insight. Thank you for your time to be a part of this. My pleasure. And thank you for listening. And if you liked this episode, please hit subscribe and provide some feedback. Also, if there’s a friend who you might think might find this insight valuable, please send it their way. And if you want to contribute with other comments, please go to Turetsky Consulting dot com slash podcast and please leave some comments. Thank you so much for listening to HR data labs, take care and stay safe.

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