Celebrating Our 100th Episode!

Connect with Dwight:

• 
• dwight.brown@salary.com

Connect with David:

• 
• 
• david.turetsky@salary.com

 
Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 
Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• Salary.com Consulting Services
• HR Data Labs Season 5 Episode 1
• HR Data Labs Season 4 Episode 24

• “Something that’s ben on my mind a lot lately . . . is the idea of quiet quitting. And I also think [quiet firing] is going to work its way into the conversation because there’s no doubt that that happens as well.”
• “I want us to be much more mature about our conversations around [pay transparency]. With California and 1162, transparency takes on a gigantic new dimension because companies are going to be forced to provide that transparency to employees as well as on job requisitions online.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect. Hit record for their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Turetsky, alongside my friend, colleague from Salary.com, Dwight Brown, co-host. Hey, Dwight, how you doing?

 

Dwight Brown: 0:58

David, I'm good. How are things going with you?

 

David Turetsky: 1:02

Outstanding because today, we record the 100th episode of the HR Data Labs podcast.

 

Dwight Brown: 1:09

And I can't believe that we're at this point! (Applause) David and his toys.

 

David Turetsky: 1:17

Yeah, I can't help myself. Can't believe we've actually got here. Dwight, 100 episodes!

 

Dwight Brown: 1:23

I know 100! Can you believe it?

 

David Turetsky: 1:23

No!

 

Dwight Brown: 1:26

No, it boggles my mind that we're at this point and going strong. We've got great listeners. We love our

 

David Turetsky: 1:33

We do. And we started this, I think I recorded listeners. the first episode sometime in August of 2020. In the heart of the pandemic. Where what we were trying to do is accomplish something kind of unique, which is talking about HR data and analytics and talking about HR and the world of that we were the crazy world we were living in. And I think what we have gotten to in this in this world is it's still crazy. It's still being affected by COVID, in some strange way. We've now kind of adopted COVID as a stepchild. But I think what we're what we're seeing now are the effects of the economy and the work the world of work and business changing dramatically as a reaction to it, as well as a consequence of it.

 

Dwight Brown: 2:27

Yeah, it's, we definitely are still crazy. And it's it's a different kind of crazy different but related kind of crazy.

 

David Turetsky: 2:36

Definitely.

 

Dwight Brown: 2:36

And it's there's so much playing out that has so much impact on on all of us. You can't ignore it. But

 

David Turetsky: 2:46

No, you can't ignore it. And so what we're going to do today is something a little different. First of all, we're going to be celebrating the 100th anniversary, we're going to talk about season four, because this is our season four wrap up. And we're going to talk about season five and the things that we're going to do. And as we have done in the past, we're going to do our predictions, and we're going to do a look back at the predictions we had done. And we're gonna look forward a little bit and talk about what we see ahead in the next six months in the world of HR, in the world of work as well as in the world around us. So let's start Dwight, by talking about the one thing that no one knows about us. Dwight, what's the latest dude? What?

 

Dwight Brown: 3:30

Well, you know what my big latest is. Although I can't I can't remember if I talked about that on my episode. If so for for the listeners out there. I am a big adrenaline junkie.

 

David Turetsky: 3:43

Oh my God.

 

Dwight Brown: 3:45

Oh my God, he says. David's been trying to get me to take up knitting.

 

David Turetsky: 3:51

No, no, there are needles involved with knitting.

 

Dwight Brown: 3:53

Yeah, he says it's an adrenaline sport.

 

David Turetsky: 3:55

No harm can come to this human!

 

Dwight Brown: 3:58

Exactly. And I'm, I'm clumsy enough where I've got to watch for that. So my, my latest, greatest crazy idea was to start paragliding. And for those of you who don't know what paragliding is, it's essentially hang gliding with a parachute on your back where you jump off mountain tops or you get towed behind the vehicle to great heights and it's a pure adrenaline rush. So so that's, you know, there are a couple of people who know that about me. David, it drives him nuts that I do that.

 

David Turetsky: 4:30

Nuts. Drives me nuts.

 

Dwight Brown: 4:35

As my college friends always tell me, they're like, if you're not doing something crazy, then we'd start to wonder.

 

David Turetsky: 4:40

I don't like your college friends. I sound like your father now. I don't like your college friends! Yes.

 

Dwight Brown: 4:49

So that's mine, what about yours David?

 

David Turetsky: 4:51

So I've started playing keyboard. I don't play it well, and I'm definitely not going to play it on this podcast today. But expect new Bump music at some point soon. It'll be well, the the Bump music actually I had developed by sampling different samples in online stores and pick them together, pull them apart, put them back together again. But this one I think I might actually be able to do myself. So we'll see.

 

Dwight Brown: 5:14

So that means a Bump music is beginning, you're going to become chopsticks.

 

David Turetsky: 5:19

Maybe some of them a little bit more advanced than chopsticks. But but pretty much yeah. So guys, don't laugh if in season five, you hear chopsticks, that'll be my homage to my friend, Dwight.

 

Dwight Brown: 5:32

I want to hear it.

 

David Turetsky: 5:33

Not today, my friend, not today. So let's dive into our topic, which is, you know, really our 100th Episode celebration, look back in season four, look ahead to season five. And then we'll round it out by talking about our predictions. Let's first do a little bit of a look back into season four. And some of the things that we discussed and some of the things we've accomplished. And I think Dwight, where I'm gonna start is that we had a lot of really interesting conversations around, especially the topic of pay equity. Pay equity did turn out to be one of the big topics of conversation for us. We talked a little bit about DE&I strategies. We've talked about several types of things that revolve around treating people fairly. And I think we kind of called that in season at the end of season three, hoping that we were going to accomplish that in season four. But we actually did get there I guess.

 

Dwight Brown: 6:35

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and so much has been happening in the world around DE&I, which is a great thing. It's on the forefront for people. And so I'm, I'm glad that we have been able to accomplish getting more of that out there. And it's been a learning experience for me just hearing our guests talk about it. And, you know, it's helped me sort of understand what is DE&I? What do we need to be thinking about? What are the challenges that go with it? All of those sorts of things. So I'm glad we were able to get more

 

David Turetsky: 7:04

And we had some very personal stories around in. this, especially with Louie Lugo talking about his his personal journey that he took, and how that journey influenced how he is as a CPO as a CHRO. And how that interacts with his daily work with his peers, as well as with how he how he changes the world around him, which was wonderful.

 

Dwight Brown: 7:28

Yeah. Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 7:30

We also had some fascinating discussions about the the work of the CHRO not just in the DE&I context, but the work of a CHRO. We heard from Cindy Foxworth, Louis Lugo, we heard from Jessica Miller-Merrill, who gave us not only the context of being a CHRO, but also the study that they do on CHRO work. Amy Moser from isolved and her her pleadings that this is the year in 2023, that we get things right from the people analytics world and bringing that into the business conversation, so that there was a lot of really interesting viewpoints from CHROs on the program and what they saw and how they use their experiences. So that was fascinating as well. So yeah, so the other thing is, is that, you know, from that perspective, I think that transitions nicely to hearing from some other people outside of the world of HR, like we heard from Britney Leonard, who gave us the contemplation of the General Counsel, and what they think of the interactions with the HR world. And, you know, what is the framework that, you know, could work better when you look at the context of the lens beyond just HR.

 

Dwight Brown: 8:40

You know, that was an interesting perspective, especially, she talked about some of the challenges. And one of the big challenges being sort of lack of communication between HR and General Counsel. You know, because I, I couldn't imagine not having good communication there. Because I can tell you that in my career, I've relied on our general counsel on a lot of things and a lot of things HR. But you know, then again, and she kind of touched on this, that some, some company structures and cultures are built around something that's different that doesn't necessarily facilitate that.

 

David Turetsky: 9:16

Right.

 

Dwight Brown: 9:16

So that was, that was a big learning piece for me.

 

David Turetsky: 9:19

It was, I'm glad we had her on. And then let's go to one of our favorite topics, which is people analytics. And so we had some phenomenal conversations, not just the Amy Mosher conversation about the year 2023 and getting it right. But we had that really interesting conversation with Adam McKinnon and Martha Curioni around being able to look at employee data quality by using AI to kind of pick out those interesting cases in the data that that should be red flags and having focus have the AI focus on the data, to be able to get better people analytics and to be able to use our data better, as you know, do I love that topic. And that one really struck a chord with me.

 

Dwight Brown: 9:58

Me too. Me too. I can't believe how little AI is really incorporated into the HR world. And that the age that the AI that is incorporated is not necessarily real great AI. But I'm looking forward to see, you know, this seems like there's so much more focus out there on the use the use of that. And I'm looking forward to seeing, you know, kind of where we end up in the next year, two years, three years, etc.

 

David Turetsky: 10:31

And I think that's what Ben Waber was actually going at when we were talking to him about how people analytics can tell us more about our businesses. And by using people analytics as a business tool, I think that's if we're going to be successful in the world of people analytics, and HR does take that place at the table, we're going to need the data to give us that insight to do what you say and to drive drive the conversation forward. So I definitely hear you on that. And one of the ways in which we're going to see that happening is by being able to link the HR data to outcomes in the business. One of the conversations we had, like with Neena Kovuru, from UKG, is actually being able to look at something like we looked at the vertical recruiting, recruiting analytics. And we talked a lot about how the recruiting world can be measured better, and how it can be measured in terms of the effectiveness of recruiting in the world of business. So I think that's where when we start looking at those individual cases, that's where I think HR can kind of drive itself to make itself more effective.

 

Dwight Brown: 11:34

Yeah, yep. Definitely more more interest and more investment coming.

 

David Turetsky: 11:39

Yeah, absolutely. And the other one is, if you look at what Kevin Campbell was talking about where he was talking about, you know, while there may be lean times coming for HR, and that's going to be something we're going to talk about in our wrap up. But he was talking about the lean times ahead in HR, that if you leverage analytics to be able to measure the programs that you're working with, that you're gonna be able to prove out your ROI is by measuring, measuring, measuring, and, you know, being able to be very open and honest about was the program effective? Well, how do we know? Well, we know because we've measured it, and we constantly are measuring it to make sure that it's achieving what we said it was going to. And then the last one I really wanted to

 

Dwight Brown: 12:19

Yeah. highlight, or one of two that I really wanted to highlight was when we talked about earned wage access, which is a new way of being able to provide employees with a lifeline of when they've gone to work, they've done the work, giving them an avenue to actually get the money out, we talked to our friends over at ZayZoon, which they provide capabilities of being able to get people access to their pay, before the paycheck happens. And we know that there's lots of predatory practices that happen there that people have to rely on, because they just can't afford to wait until the paycheck comes. So that was actually a really eye opening conversation of how HR can make employees' lives better, reduce turnover, reduce health issues, by being able to give people that kind of financial lifeline. That when really fascinated me, because it was you know, and I was probably hiding under a rock, but it was only about six months ago, where I where I really kind of became aware of that, that capability. And you, you know, they talked about this idea of, of the predatory loans, the payday loans, and people having to turn to that and how earn wage access really resolves that issue and ultimately puts more money in the pockets of people, but allows them when they're living paycheck to paycheck, it allows them the capability to be included to live their lives with a little less stress.

 

David Turetsky: 13:53

Exactly. The last ones I really want to focus on it's we had some really great conversations that are beginning of the season around what's happening in the world of compensation. And so we started, we started out with Dino and I talking about how do we deal with compensation in this crazy world. And then we had a bunch of conversations the world at work, conference around pay equity, talent intelligence, and then where is the world of compensation going? What's the future by looking at the past? And those were really fascinating, because, you know, on this show, we talk a lot about HR process. compensation management has been looking at analytics for many, many years. And it's built into the process. So that's where if you look at comp, it's inextricable analytics from compensation, you can't get away from it. And so it's really fascinating to see what the effect of technology and new sources of data have in the world of compensation, and that's what we spent I think the first seven episodes talking about that's That was wonderful.

 

Dwight Brown: 14:57

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 14:58

And then the last but not least here is we had a conversation or actually we had a couple of conversations around technology and change. And with Nadia Clifford, we talked about the world of HR technology being very similar to developing new applications where you can't get away from the problems that we have in technology initiatives, especially when they're rather complex. They're just like building new technologies. And so you have to really maintain a lot of discipline. And the last, the last one that we'll highlight is from Carlee Wolfe and change management, and being able to talk about programs be able to talk about things, but do it doing it very simply.

 

Dwight Brown: 15:37

Yeah, that went really intertwined well with this idea of the technology, because, you know, technology tends to be so disruptive. And so how do you manage that change through the disruption of it?

 

David Turetsky: 15:48

Exactly.

 

Dwight Brown: 15:49

That it's a it's a skill that is, is not something that a lot of people have. And so it was interesting hearing from her on, How do you do that? How do you how do you intertwine that on the technology and or any other major change that you're looking to make as an organization?

 

David Turetsky: 16:07

Absolutely. And I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to all the people who joined us, in season four, there were wonderful conversations to be had across a multitude of wonderful guests we had, and we look forward to season five. And yes, we're gonna get to Season Five and what it's going to entail. But I just wanted to again, reiterate to all the guests that we had, you're all wonderful, you all brought something phenomenal to the table. We've gotten great feedback on all of the conversations and topics. And I think people really enjoy having genuine people with genuine ideas, with good things and bad things. And you know, we're all human. But the episodes were just just wonderful in season four. So thank you so much.

 

Dwight Brown: 16:55

Just to clarify, for our listeners, I actually am not human, I think of myself as superhuman. Just to put that out there. Just saying.

 

David Turetsky: 17:02

I thought you were gonna say you're AI.

 

Dwight Brown: 17:06

Yeah, they're probably a lot of acronyms for me. Ones we can't repeat on this show.

 

David Turetsky: 17:11

No, because we do not have the E for explicit, yeah, explicit. I was gonna say extreme, but that we, you are an extreme.

 

Dwight Brown: 17:19

Yeah, I've already got the extreme down.

 

David Turetsky: 17:21

You are extreme. But that's season four! And if you have any comments about season four, please let us know. But we're gonna switch topics. Now we're gonna let's talk about season five.

 

Announcer: 17:31

Like what you hear so far? Make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe. This podcast is made possible by Salary.com. Now back to the show.

 

David Turetsky: 17:40

So season five, funnily enough, the 25 episodes that will encompass season five, most of which we've already recorded! We went to the HR Tech '22 conference in Las Vegas, and had a ton of conversations with people around what's happening in the world, we've mainly focused on HR technology, but we also talked about HR process. We talked about a lot of recruiting technology and recruiting technology changes in 2023, that's coming up. We talked a lot about about lots of different topics. And so I think you're gonna hear some fun conversations that came out of it. We also have some interesting conversations coming up beyond that. And if I were to say, what does Season Five look like? I say Season Five looks very much like season four, or actually much, probably more like season three, where we had a lot of conversations that came out of HR Tech, that were fascinating that talked about the future of HR technology, not just in 2023, but beyond. And we are trying to hone the craft around being able to pick out what specific things and trying to tie people to specific things they see that are happening that will affect you. So it's not just going to be a bunch of things about the HR Tech 2022 conference, but about how does that the things that happen there and what was shown there, how does that actually impact the world around you and the technologies that use every day?

 

Dwight Brown: 19:09

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this and continuing conversations but also exploring some of the some of the new pieces one of the interesting pieces about you think back to season one, episode one and being able to see some of the evolution.

 

David Turetsky: 19:25

Do we have to actually? That was that was the worst one.

 

Dwight Brown: 19:28

That was our highest downloaded one!

 

David Turetsky: 19:32

I know because that's just because it was the first one but a lot of people just said oh, this is gonna be crap if this is what you guys were talking about, because it was just me.

 

Dwight Brown: 19:38

Well, you know, you must have you must have had grandma doing multiple clicks on the download. So

 

David Turetsky: 19:44

I did. Well my mom yeah, my mom hit the button.

 

Dwight Brown: 19:47

Mom got in the game too? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Got to use your resources. But ya know, it's it's interesting seeing this stuff. Being able to see even the evolution I mean, it's a relatively short time, but think of how much evolution there's already been since that time. And one of the things that I like about some of the series that that we do on the show with broadcasting from conferences and whatnot, is being able to see and hear from people, Hey, two years ago, this is where we're at today, this is where we're at. And so that's, you know, that's why I'm glad one of the reasons among many that I'm glad that we've been able to keep the show going and get, you know, such a great base of guests to share their insights and recollections.

 

David Turetsky: 20:39

And I think we use the term embarrassment of riches. And I don't want to seem like a jerk, when I say this, for those of you who want to be on the podcast, we want to have you on the podcast, and we publish weekly, and our shows are only a half an hour, our biggest problem is, is that now we have so many people who want a podcast with us. And we have so many episodes we've already actually recorded so far, that we are literally scheduled out until middle of 2023 already. So for those of you who want to podcast with us, that's great. Don't be discouraged, there's still plenty of time to, to record with us because we're not going to we're almost have a year's worth of recordings scheduled already. And that's, that's a really nice thing to know. And so we we're, Dwight and I are contemplating actually doing some specials to be able to move some of the stuff along and to potentially put out content more frequently. But but that's yet to come. So. So the good thing about Season Five is is that there's going to be some fascinating learnings coming out of season five, from what we've talked about already, and I think you're gonna enjoy it, I hope you're gonna enjoy it. And if you don't, please let us know. But I think I think that that may be one of our best seasons so far, although I really liked season four, but all my children are beautiful children so. So Dwight, we've come to that part of the program where we need to look back. And this is going to be painful. But we need to look back at what we said, for the end of season three and the predictions we had at the end of season three. And we have to kind of judge whether or not we hit the mark on our predictions. So we have to open up the envelope. And look at what we said.

 

Dwight Brown: 22:32

Drum roll please.

 

David Turetsky: 22:34

Drum roll. And so so let me let me say that that Dwight's prediction was that there's going to be some ease in the or softening in the labor market. And that because of that softening, the unemployment rate is going to kick back up. And they're going to utilize more HR technology. And it then you also predicted that things aren't going to be as focused on the employee and the employer is going to have more control. And so that employers will have an easier time of hiring, and be able to kind of take back the, I think, the mantle of coming back into work and to kind of drive some other things. So do you want to talk to your prediction a little bit? Or do you want to just ignore the fact that you said all those things?

 

Dwight Brown: 23:26

Well, you know, I'd kind of like to ignore it because I was wrong. But I wasn't totally wrong.

 

David Turetsky: 23:32

No, not totally. Mostly. But not totally.

 

Dwight Brown: 23:35

Yeah. So I'm looking at the unemployment rate here. And the the unemployment rate definitely has not gone back up, we're gonna see a little bit of uptick in it, we did see, we did see an uptick in the month of August. But other than that, it's remained low and gotten lower the, you know, companies are still you know, things are definitely employee side in terms of companies still working on getting and retaining employees and, and looking for ways that they can retain and and keep their keep their employees satisfied and not see poaching and those kinds of things. Now, I, I will go so far as to say that I do, I'm, I'm seeing enough and I'm hearing enough from clients that's telling me that the I think we are having some softening in the labor market. It's not coming up in the unemployment rate yet, but I'm hearing more and more of companies saying, Hey, we're gonna start to hold on some of our hirings.

 

David Turetsky: 24:40

Job freezes. Yeah.

 

Dwight Brown: 24:41

Yeah, exactly. And we're actually seeing that bear out in the news, a couple of the couple of the major companies, I can't remember if this is correct, but I want to say that Apple froze some hiring and there were a couple other major players that are coming out and just for now, freezing things. So I think we're going to see some of that softening in the labor market still.

 

David Turetsky: 25:03

So is that your prediction? Or is that? Is that something you're clarifying from the the last?

 

Dwight Brown: 25:09

Eh little of both? Little of both? I think it definitely moves in definitely moves into that category of prediction. So I guess that would be the other thing that I think we're gonna see. I think we're already we're already seeing blips on the radar about this. We are moving into recession to me. We are we're not deep into it yet. But I, I think that we're going to see the recession get deeper and more pronounced to the point where people are willing to start to call it a recession. Nobody's willing to call it right now. Nobody wants to say that.

 

David Turetsky: 25:43

No, I think technically we already have because we've had the we've had the technically two quarters or three quarters of G GDP slippage. So yeah, or deceleration. So that is definitely there.

 

Dwight Brown: 25:55

Yeah, I think we're gonna see it get deeper. So. So how about you? That's, that's my prediction.

 

David Turetsky: 26:02

Okay. So let me just play back for the record that so I called that the government with the first prediction I made was that the government is going to put incentives together to go beyond fossil fuel. And so I think everybody knows that there was the legislation that was passed, that enables the purchasing of greener cars. And that the while it's not the Green New Deal that some were hoping for, at least it did move the ball on being able to start to incentivize behaviors back again, to buy greener cars, hybrid and electric cars. And so that that did happen. So there was a win there.

 

Dwight Brown: 26:42

Attaboy! (Applause) He took a bow on camera.

 

David Turetsky: 26:55

There you go.

 

Dwight Brown: 26:56

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank

 

David Turetsky: 26:58

The second thing that I said was that that the you very much. prices are going to continue to rise based on the gas and diesel prices. And they have and we still haven't seen, I think we haven't seen the peak yet of inflation. And so that will cause pressure on the government. And it did cause pressure on the government to do a couple things. I think people know that the executive branch has now gone into the oil reserves yet again, because of OPEX cutting of production, which will then raise prices on gas again. And so you know, that's going to have that knock on effect. Now, let's talk about the inflation because I mentioned inflation as well in my predictions. And so I said I to the Feds gonna have to maintain that balance on the inflation and unemployment. And of course, they raised interest rates. And they didn't want us to get into, like the major recession. And so they've been increasing the rates at 75 basis points pretty much on a monthly basis. And I think that we're poised for another couple of those. And let me say that, that the word recession always makes people nervous. And as an economist, one of the things I think everybody should understand is, recession just means that the that the economy is shrinking, it doesn't mean that the world is ending. So much growth over the last 20 years in our economy, that, frankly, it's okay to actually have some shrinking a little bit. The problem right now is consumers are spending too much money. And one of the things that the Fed is trying to do is to give consumers an alternative. One is punitive and one is incentive based. Incentive based means go save your money and put it in something like a savings account, and you're gonna get some money, because the banks are going to start to give more money for you to do that. It's called an incentive. And that's interest rates, interest rates going up not just affects credit cards, but it also affects your savings account. So I don't know if you've seen this, but Ally is now at like two and a half percent interest on savings rates. That's phenomenal. That's wonderful. That's frankly, a great thing because there's no risk to you losing your money. There's no downside. It's a guaranteed 2% APR. The punitive piece of interest rates are if you're spending a ton of money and you're spending it on your credit cards, your credit cards will be more expensive, borrowing becomes more expensive. There is a reason why the Fed is doing this. It wants to slow the economy down. So prices come down. If you're not spending prices come down. That's how a capitalist slash socialist market works. So just saying Oh, interest rates are going up and inflation's are going up. We're in hell. No! There is a consequence here that you guys control that all of us control and it's spend less and those things start to slow down. The economy slows down, prices start slowing down. Now the knock on effect of this, as Dwight was talking about was job freezes and furloughs and other things well, because in the other side of this companies are trying to reskill and upskill. And we've had really great conversations with some people about this, not only this year, but in years past the, in order to be able to sustain growth in a smart way, some companies who may be laying off in certain sectors should try and reskill people to go over, Yes, this is part of my predictions, but is starting should start to try and reskill people, instead of letting them go to keep them employed, and get them access to new skills so they can take on other jobs. So the last hope that I had was on pay equity. And the last prediction I made was on pay equity. And so we've seen California come out with SB 1162, which was a dramatic new pay transparency, pay equity legislation. And I think that's going to start to be the way in which some states are going to go, we've already seen Colorado and New York City and some others take notice. I think there's 14 or 16 new bits of legislation that are that are floating in the States, to do more around pay equity and transparency. So dude, I think I was three for three.

 

Dwight Brown: 31:16

I I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. I think you were three for three. (applause) Don't let it go to your head!

 

David Turetsky: 31:28

Dude, it's okay. That's already there. So, so now that we've done done the past predictions, let's go to our 2023 predictions for the next six months, six months. I mean, we're talking from, you know, you know, where are we? Well, we're currently in October, right? So this isn't going to air until December. So let's kind of take the, the the perspective of we're doing this from December, and the predictions aren't going to be evaluated until probably the June timeframe, right, which is the end of season five. So Dwight, what are your give us two or three predictions about what's going to happen in the world? What's gonna happen in the world of HR, HR technology within the next six months?

 

Dwight Brown: 32:18

So it's something that's been on my mind a lot lately. And I know, it's been on the mind of everybody, because we see it constantly in the news these days is the idea of quiet quitting. And I think we're going to see more discussion around that. I think that that really is something that companies are are now that it's sort of put out there. I mean, it's been happening for years. Is this the first time we've, we've actually put some sort of term like this to it.

 

David Turetsky: 32:48

Well, there used to be disengagement, right? There used to be employee disengagement, which is a little different. But But yeah,

 

Dwight Brown: 32:54

Yeah, quiet quitting sounds a lot worse than employee disengagement. And I think companies are already wrestling with this, especially under record, low levels of unemployment. It's undeniable for them. The one that I saw that this was the first time I had seen this was the idea of quiet firing, also. And I think that is also going to work its way into the conversation, because there's no doubt that, that that happens as well. And, you know, that's, to me, that's a factor of companies wrestling with how do you, you know, at what point is an employee valuable versus at what point is an employee just a warm body sitting in a chair, punching a couple of keys and not necessarily adding value? So I think we're, you know, my prediction is we're gonna see a lot more in the news and a lot more discourse in terms of both sides of the coin, both the quiet quitting, but also, I think, quiet firing, and especially as we start to, you know, move into the the recession territory and you start to look at the potential for unemployment to start to come back up again, I think those two things are going to happen in parallel.

 

David Turetsky: 34:10

Okay. Those are your predictions.

 

Dwight Brown: 34:13

Those are my predictions.

 

David Turetsky: 34:14

Quiet quitting and quiet firing.

 

Dwight Brown: 34:15

I don't know how we're going to measure that to see whether I was right or not, but.

 

David Turetsky: 34:20

I think we'll have an instinct.

 

Dwight Brown: 34:22

Yeah. So that's my prediction. On to you, my

 

David Turetsky: 34:26

I'm putting on my Carnac hat, which for those friend. Johnny Carson tonight Show fans you might remember. So I have a couple that really bother me. One is pay transparency. I want pay transparency to to happen. And I want pay transparency to stop being something that people talk about as negative. I want people to start embracing it and want us to be much more mature about our conversations around it. Pay transparency has to happen. This is the world of the internet. You can look up salaries, you can Glassdoor or Salary.com or PayScale or wherever you go, you can find out where what people are paid and how. With California and 1162. Transparency takes on a gigantic, new dimension, because companies are going to be forced to provide that transparency to employees as well as on job requisitions online. So that's my first prediction is pay transparency will start being a more mature conversation in the world. And we're going to start to see it in the next six months kind of take on a new role. I think the second thing and I'm going to go a little bit political here is that the midterm elections are going to cause more upheaval in the political and society in the United States, with a new Congress and new leadership in Congress. And with a tension between the executive, the Supreme Court and the Congress, I think we're going to come to the world of total gridlock in Washington, more than there is today, some legislation has gotten passed now because of the Democratic majority in the House and Senate. And I think it's just going to become complete gridlock with a Senate and Congress that are completely different. And that's going to cause many people, lots of consternation, it's going to cause lots of stress. And it's going to make the employer employee relationship even more difficult. We've had conversations on the on the HR Data Labs podcast, where we've talked to people about resolving differences in the workplace. And we both think that's going to be part of season five, Tara Furiani, who is one of my friends, and I think one of the most brave people on LinkedIn. But she talks a lot about and she'll talk about it in season five, about how people have to act maturely. Not putting their political nature aside, but being able to acknowledge that we exist, and that we may have differences and we can live together and work together and have civil discourse and act with propriety. And that doesn't happen. And if you go to LinkedIn today, and you see a post, and someone posts a really cute message about their kids, and then if you look in the comments, and there's a bunch of people beating them up for for putting something personal on LinkedIn, I have two words for you. Shut up. Leave those people alone. Don't have anything good to say my mother told me this all the time, Dwight. If you don't have anything good to say, shut up not to be quiet.

 

Dwight Brown: 37:25

Don't say anything at all? No, it's Shut up.

 

David Turetsky: 37:27

Shut up! Yeah. Um, so I love my friend Tara. And I wish her well. And I hope people are more like her where you can speak your mind and not worry about what other people think. So Tara, is my shout out in my act of bravery. So there are my three. And I think we're gonna have a good year, hopefully, I think 2023 is going to be a good year, despite the differences that we have in our political world in the United States. And I hope things end in the world of war in Europe. And I hope that Russia gets the hell out of Ukraine. And nothing bad happens between now and then. So there you go.

 

Dwight Brown: 38:08

There we go.

 

David Turetsky: 38:17

There's a there's there's episode 100. We love our listeners.

 

Dwight Brown: 38:21

We totally love our listeners.

 

David Turetsky: 38:23

We totally do. We wish you well. And Mom, thanks for keep hitting that download button. We really do appreciate you.

 

Dwight Brown: 38:30

I'm gonna teach my dog to do it.

 

David Turetsky: 38:34

My dog is a podcast listener and you know, just to kind of to kind of put a finer point on it. We appreciate you. And thank you for all you do. And if you have any comments, please send them our way. And, Dwight, thank you so much. You're awesome. You're the best co-host person could want.

 

Dwight Brown: 38:52

David, you're the best. Not me. I love it. I love working with you on this. This is a great, great thing.

 

David Turetsky: 38:59

Me too. Me too. And I really appreciate you man. And I appreciate the people who work with us as well, whether it's Karissa or Eric, or Stela or Carl, or any of the other people that work with us down the line. You guys are awesome. And we can't do this without you. So here's I'm raising my glass to the 100th episode. And to all of you who have helped us get here.

 

Dwight Brown: 39:23

And just for the record, our glasses contain coffee.

 

David Turetsky: 39:25

Coffee only, or a little Splenda. But thank you so much. Take care, and please stay safe.

 

Announcer: 39:32

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